Author Topic: The Classical Download Thread  (Read 262474 times)

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Offline nigeld

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #560 on: April 26, 2009, 10:24:18 AM »
"Do not record/steal music from the radio by recording it on tapes!"
Progress. Progress has never been stopped and will never be stopped. You cannot turn back the clock. Simple.

My guess is, the "making money out of music records" business is almost dead. I'm not sure what that means for the classical genre forinstance, but mankind will survive.

Yep mankind will survive but I for one will be sad to see the dramatic reduction of new recordings that has to follow this trend.

....and just cause everyone else is doing it, don't make it right.  Ripping a file of music you haven't paid for really is no different to walking out of a shop with a disc you haven't paid for.  How many of us would really be willing to do that?







Soli Deo Gloria

Kuhlau

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #561 on: April 26, 2009, 10:43:22 AM »
Ripping a file of music you haven't paid for really is no different to walking out of a shop with a disc you haven't paid for.

Not so.

Firstly, if you steal a CD from a store, you're getting the whole PHYSICAL product: liner notes, case, disc ... the lot. When you download from a torrent, you're getting a reproduction of the original, not the thing itself. Yes, you can pay for these reproductions from numerous online stores - thereby condoning their greed and encouraging the practice of charging large sums of money for what are, at the end of the day, just 1s and 0s (you'll have to pay again if you want the packaging, liner notes, et al).

Is that right? I think not. So using torrents is a good (if not currently legal) way to send a clear message to fat cat record execs: Rethink your strategy or continue losing revenue. Because, let's make no mistake about this, it's the record companies that suffer most from file sharing, not the artists.

FK

Offline techniquest

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #562 on: April 26, 2009, 12:13:46 PM »
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Rethink your strategy or continue losing revenue. Because, let's make no mistake about this, it's the record companies that suffer most from file sharing, not the artists.

Whereas I do agree with your sentiments, and have been known to download the odd symphony or two, I think there's a flaw in your argument. If the record companies lose revenue, then they are less likely to contract recordings - especially from new or off-the-beaten-track composers. Unless a good profit is likely (a Beethoven/Brahms/Mozart disc from a well known combo - or yet another compilation from Classic FM), companies will simply say 'no'. That's when composers and musicians suffer.

Kuhlau

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #563 on: April 26, 2009, 12:33:54 PM »
If the record companies lose revenue, then they are less likely to contract recordings - especially from new or off-the-beaten-track composers. Unless a good profit is likely (a Beethoven/Brahms/Mozart disc from a well known combo - or yet another compilation from Classic FM), companies will simply say 'no'. That's when composers and musicians suffer.

Alternatively, the performers take greater control of their own affairs. See the artists on the Onyx label for proof.

FK

Offline techniquest

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #564 on: April 27, 2009, 07:10:20 AM »
The LSO live recordings also presumably add to your point, which is a fair point indeed.
I assume that when someone downloads from a torrent, someone else has bought the disc in the first instance and is then sharing with others what they have paid money for via the torrent networks; is that correct? If that's so, then theoretically downloading a torrent is no different to my lending the disc I bought today to my next door neighbour so he can listen to it. He hasn't paid for it, but he does have the benefit of being able to listen to it.
This argument is like an endless tennis match - both sides can see justification in their opinions.

Offline Fëanor

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #565 on: April 27, 2009, 10:35:03 AM »
...
I assume that when someone downloads from a torrent, someone else has bought the disc in the first instance and is then sharing with others what they have paid money for via the torrent networks; is that correct? [YES] If that's so, then theoretically downloading a torrent is no different to my lending the disc I bought today to my next door neighbour so he can listen to it. He hasn't paid for it, but he does have the benefit of being able to listen to it. [NO!]
This argument is like an endless tennis match - both sides can see justification in their opinions.

The principal difference is that when I lend the CD to my neighbour I (presumably) don't have the use of it while he has it.  If I publish a bit torrent of that CD thousands of people may download and be similtaneously listening to it.

For that matter, as it stands in many jurisdictions, if I rip the CD to my hard drive I am not violating the copywrite laws since this is "fair use" of the CD I own.  On the other hand if I sell the CD -- or perhaps even if I just lend it out --  my hard drive copies become illegal.  :(
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 10:37:52 AM by Feanor »

Offline techniquest

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #566 on: April 27, 2009, 11:58:26 AM »
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On the other hand if I sell the CD -- or perhaps even if I just lend it out --  my hard drive copies become illegal.

So that means that if I go out and buy a CD at a shop, then burn it to my hard drive so that I can listen to it on my mp3 player (for example), and then at some later date sell the original CD on (say) ebay; the mp3 that I have on my player and hard drive is now an illegal copy? Even though it was perfectly OK when I had the original CD in my possession, and even though I had paid the actual CD that I have burned?

Offline Fëanor

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #567 on: April 27, 2009, 02:01:28 PM »
So that means that if I go out and buy a CD at a shop, then burn it to my hard drive so that I can listen to it on my mp3 player (for example), and then at some later date sell the original CD on (say) ebay; the mp3 that I have on my player and hard drive is now an illegal copy? Even though it was perfectly OK when I had the original CD in my possession, and even though I had paid the actual CD that I have burned?
Yep.  In fact it's somewhat doubtful whether the second copy you have on your MP3 player is legal.

Offline Andante

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #568 on: April 27, 2009, 03:49:49 PM »
What is the situation if you give away a copy instead of selling a copy?
Andante always true to his word has kicked the Marijuana soaked bot with its addled brain in to touch.

Offline Fëanor

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #569 on: April 28, 2009, 01:03:59 AM »
What is the situation if you give away a copy instead of selling a copy?

Obvious, isn't it?  ILLEGAL  $:)

I suppose that copywriter holders will first go after those trying to make money but will and have gotten to those who "share" without making profit.

Offline techniquest

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #570 on: April 28, 2009, 07:54:54 AM »
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Yep.  In fact it's somewhat doubtful whether the second copy you have on your MP3 player is legal.
Why?

Quote
For that matter, as it stands in many jurisdictions, if I rip the CD to my hard drive I am not violating the copywrite laws since this is "fair use" of the CD I own.
But it is no longer "fair use" and become illegal if I give away, sell or eat the original CD?

Offline Brian

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #571 on: April 28, 2009, 08:26:04 AM »
Due to what has to be a pricing error of some kind, ClassicsOnline is now selling a 320 kbps download of Vernon Handley's complete Chandos Bax cycle for $10.

Offline Lethevich

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #572 on: April 28, 2009, 10:22:53 AM »
Thanks for pointing that out, Brian - I hope that some people go for it.

To any high-Romantic fan, this is music to wallow in. Not the most immediate of works, but there is such a richness of depth to be found that, as an investment, this set is rather superb at such a price.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline jimmosk

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #573 on: April 28, 2009, 11:31:49 AM »
On the effect-of-illegal-sharing-on-future-recordings subject, I've often wondered whether this will lead to a return of the much older pre-subscription model: in the 18th century a publisher would announce that they *would* publish a book once a certain number of people sent in their money for it. *Then* they created the book, gave it to those who had subscribed, and (sometimes) continued to sell more copies in stores.  In the future do you think a recording company might say something like, "we will record Arvo Pärt's Symphony #5 as soon as we have received $30,000 in pre-orders?", and only then record the work... the assumption being that once copies of it were in listeners hands, illegal sharing would prevent them from getting much further revenue, so best to get the $30,000 up front?

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Offline Andante

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #574 on: April 28, 2009, 12:51:14 PM »
Obvious, isn't it?  ILLEGAL  $:)

I suppose that copywriter holders will first go after those trying to make money but will and have gotten to those who "share" without making profit.

I don't think it is that simple, if I leave my CD collection to my wife when I die, that is not illegal  0:)
Andante always true to his word has kicked the Marijuana soaked bot with its addled brain in to touch.

Kuhlau

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #575 on: April 29, 2009, 12:39:25 AM »
Due to what has to be a pricing error of some kind, ClassicsOnline is now selling a 320 kbps download of Vernon Handley's complete Chandos Bax cycle for $10.

Already have it in lossless (won't tell you how ;)). Still think Bryden Thomson's set (also on Chandos) is superior, however.

On the effect-of-illegal-sharing-on-future-recordings subject, I've often wondered whether this will lead to a return of the much older pre-subscription model: in the 18th century a publisher would announce that they *would* publish a book once a certain number of people sent in their money for it. *Then* they created the book, gave it to those who had subscribed, and (sometimes) continued to sell more copies in stores.  In the future do you think a recording company might say something like, "we will record Arvo Pärt's Symphony #5 as soon as we have received $30,000 in pre-orders?", and only then record the work... the assumption being that once copies of it were in listeners hands, illegal sharing would prevent them from getting much further revenue, so best to get the $30,000 up front?

An interesting idea ... though I think the sums involved would need to be smaller. From what I've read, $30,000 might be a bit ambitious.

FK

Offline Fëanor

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #576 on: April 29, 2009, 02:31:23 AM »
I don't think it is that simple, if I leave my CD collection to my wife when I die, that is not illegal  0:)

Your right about it not being simple: laws differ significantly between jurisdictions for sure.  No, it's not illegal to leave you wife your CD collection, but she's got the physical CD: see what I'm getting at?

Offline Valentino

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #577 on: April 29, 2009, 08:47:24 AM »
On the effect-of-illegal-sharing-on-future-recordings subject, I've often wondered whether this will lead to a return of the much older pre-subscription model: in the 18th century a publisher would announce that they *would* publish a book once a certain number of people sent in their money for it. *Then* they created the book, gave it to those who had subscribed, and (sometimes) continued to sell more copies in stores.  In the future do you think a recording company might say something like, "we will record Arvo Pärt's Symphony #5 as soon as we have received $30,000 in pre-orders?", and only then record the work... the assumption being that once copies of it were in listeners hands, illegal sharing would prevent them from getting much further revenue, so best to get the $30,000 up front?
I do think that's where we're heading. Again.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #578 on: April 29, 2009, 03:32:25 PM »
Due to what has to be a pricing error of some kind, ClassicsOnline is now selling a 320 kbps download of Vernon Handley's complete Chandos Bax cycle for $10.

Thanks Brian for the heads up, that is a lot of music for $9.99 and I like Bax!  I signed up day before yesterday and never got a conformation email to activate my account, I couldn't contact Classics Online as their contact email was not working.  Their email is now working, they responded within 10 minutes of my sending the email,  :D BRAVO! I've never got a response so quick from anyone! Thanks Rose!

Everything is working great and I am listening as I download all seven of Bax's Symphonies plus a couple of overtures and a set of interviews with Vernon Handley.

UPDATE: Classics Online just raised the price of the Bax Symphonies to 49.95 so the 9.99 must have been a pricing error.  Also you will have to manually input the Symphony numbers. as each track lists the name of the movement but not the individual symphony number,  Using you use the track and disc number I was able to get the symphony numbers from their website.  Good thing I was up late night before last that is a big savings!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 04:16:55 AM by Teresa »

Offline Andante

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Re: The Classical Download Thread
« Reply #579 on: April 29, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »
  No, it's not illegal to leave you wife your CD collection, but she's got the physical CD: see what I'm getting at?

What I failed to mention was that due to the tarnishing bug that struck a lot of CDs from the 90s approx, I copied quite a few as a safe guard, so she would inherit copies, secondly with Naxos, artists are paid upfront once only for making a CD, so if you copy a Naxos only Naxos suffers,IMO its to late to get the copying stopped now, the music industry is having a big shake up.
Andante always true to his word has kicked the Marijuana soaked bot with its addled brain in to touch.