Leonard Bernstein conducting

[BorisG]

I recommend

1)the Brahms Sym #2, with the Academic Festival Overture on DG with the VPO
2) Sibelius Sym #1 - on DG with the VPO

3)Grofe - Grand Canyon Suite- NYP- Probably on SONY Essential Classics by now

4) A disc devoted to Military Marches. -NYP-Most by Sousa, but including some excerpts from movie soundtracks - CBS- SONY

5) Berlioz - Excerpts from "Romeo and Juliet" - NYP- CBS. Too bad he didn't record the entire work

6) Stravinsky "The Rite of Spring"- NYP (his first recorded version)- Don't know where you can  get it by now., Vastly SUPERIOR to ANY of his other recorded versions.

7) Mahler Sym #2- Given in CBS studios the weekend of the JFK Assassination. Was on TV. But I'm sure some audio recording exists somewhere. Lenny in tears, leading the NYP, Lucine Amara and Jennie Tourel.

I didn't expect to see that "Rite" in Sony's current Great Performances. It would make too much sense.

[Iago]

He has an unusual and excellent interpretation of the Dvorak Seventh, worth checking out.

And anyone who collects Bernstein would be a freak not to own this masterwork:



The best CD he ever made, I imagine!

Sorry to have to tell you this, but Bernstein did not conduct the performance
on the disk that you pictured. 

He did conduct a studio production with Kiri TeKanawa, Jose Carrerras and Tatiana Troyanos, with an all star orchestra consisting of many members of the NYP and Wynton Marsalis on solo trumpet. That performance is available on DVD and cd.

[PerfectWagnerite]

He did conduct a studio production with Kiri TeKanawa, Jose Carrerras and Tatiana Troyanos, with an all star orchestra consisting of many members of the NYP and Wynton Marsalis on solo trumpet. That performance is available on DVD and cd.

I don't like that particular performance...especially Carreras, who just sounds wrong for the role...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

All good choices so far...Mahler (DG), late Mozart (DG), and Shostakovich (DG).

I'd add this little ditty:

[Iago]

I don't like that particular performance...especially Carreras, who just sounds wrong for the role...

I also don't like it. And if you watch the DVD (made at the actual recording sessions), Bernstein didn't like Carreras either.  There is much more on the DVD than on the cd. Interviews and comments by performers. Bernstein is seen rehearsing all the principles before any "take". His patience and tolerance were stretched to the limit. But I must say that apparently he was no "bed of roses to work with".

[Mark]

Let me start by saying that I know this may prove a controversial topic. For some, Lenny was and still is a god: a man who could simply do no wrong. Others revere him but not fanatically, while others still greatly admire his work as a conductor.

I think he sucked*.

I'll admit I've not heard much Lenny on CD. A dozen recordings, tops? But they've been enough for me to form a very negative opinion of Mr Bernstein, who I now think of as overrated. His way with tempi and dynamics seems to me to torture good music, while his interpretations seem to be deliberately pushed to the extreme just for effect. They tell me he was better in his younger years. Maybe he was. I believe (though I can't be sure) that I've only experienced a few of his later recordings. I didn't like what I heard.

An example? You want an example? I'll give you two.

1) Vaughan Williams' Tallis Fantasia with the NYPO. What in God's name did RVW do to Lenny in some previous life for him to hurt this beautiful piece so badly? He drags and pulls it out of all shape for over 18 minutes! Every phrase seems underlined thrice, as though Lenny wants us to think, 'Hey, he understands that bit.' The string players must've needed extra-long bows to hold notes for such an interminable length of time; and the engineers didn't help by recording every chair creak and ant fart within a four-mile radius of the recording venue. In short, a disaster.

2) Then, there's Lenny's awful, truly awful, Sony recording of Sibelius' Third Symphony. I had to check the CD cover to be sure THAT'S what I was listening to. Could the second movement tempi be made any broader? I actually lost sight of the themes, and soon found myself becoming so angry I wanted to punch the Dalai Lama. I'd have punched Bernstein had he been in the room at that moment.

I'm sorry if my comments seem ignorant or offensive. They could well be the former, but they're certainly not meant to be the latter. I just felt I had to 'out' myself as a Lenny hater (in much the same way as I outed myself as no fan of Maxim Vengerov), and stop biting my tongue every time someone or some article praised Bernstein to the stars. I've no idea what he was like as a composer, but I sure as hell know I haven't liked what I've heard of him so far as a conductor. Perhaps someone will suggest a recording that begins Lenny's rehabilitation in my ears.

Your thoughts?




*Yes, with hindsight this remark IS a tad harsh.

[karlhenning]

I'm waiting until I've heard Bernstein's recordings of Dittersdorf before forming an opinion.  No conductor of stature could possibly have omitted Dittersdorf from his repertory.

[Mark]

Karl, seriously, this Dittersdorf obsession of yours is getting tiresome. Try listening to Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven ...

[karlhenning]

I try to branch out, Mark; but Dittersdorf has fixed me with his glittering eye!

[karlhenning]

I'd vote, but none of the options quite signs me on.

[bhodges]

Mark, I'm in the "great" camp, but I also don't believe he could "do no wrong."  He could be very willful with scores, as you note, and although I haven't heard the two examples you mention, there are other examples.  Personally, I like his late (1990s) Tchaikovsky recordings with the NY Philharmonic, but they are packed with such Sturm und Drang that I can easily see someone not liking them.

My favorite Bernstein recordings are his Mahler 2 from the mid-1980s, also with the NY Phil, but like the Tchaikovsky, also very over-the-top emotional.  (If you like Boulez here you won't like Bernstein.)  I also like a DVD of him and the orchestra in Tokyo from 1979, in the Schumann Symphony No. 1 followed by an absolutely electrifying Shostakovich Symphony No. 5. 

And one more: his Symphonic Dances from West Side Story (again with the NY Phil) from the 1960s, that has been re-released a number of times in different packages (e.g., "The Royal Edition," "The Bernstein Edition," etc.).  It really shows off the chemistry between him and the orchestra at the time.

But it could also be argued that his greatest strength of all was his sheer passion for music, i.e., his ability to encourage people to listen to something they might not normally like, or to uncover things in music that others didn't see.  (He was one of the first Charles Ives advocates, for example, back in the 1960s before Ives became more widely known.)  If you ever have a chance to see his Harvard lectures (available on DVD) they are quite something.

--Bruce

[mahlertitan]

I think he sucked.

I'm sorry if my comments seem ignorant or offensive.

apology accepted.

[hornteacher]

Bernstein was a heart on his sleeve conductor.  In my opinion I think he sacrificed historical accuracy for emotional impact in many performances.  However, that can be a good thing sometimes.  If I hear 50 recordings of the same work and they all sound the same then what's the point?  Bernstein did bring something different to the table, and in that sense, he was great.

As a side note, as an educator, I also admired his persistant advocacy for youth education.

[BachQ]

Bernstein was one of the greatest conductors of our generation.  He had his weak spots (like everyone), but they were isolated and minimal.  He brought to conducting a vast knowledge of music from the perspectives of composer, pianist, scholar, conductor, and lecturer.

[mahlertitan]

I could care less about what you thought about some of the recording Lenny made. But, from my experience, his status as the interpretor of Schumann and Mahler symphonies are legendary. You might not know how to appreciate his style, well, too bad for you. I and many others quite enjoy his interpretations of Mahler and Schumann, but I guess you won't be able to find out, since you are so disgusted by his Sibelius and Williams, well, too bad for you.

I am still quite baffled at how you can determine that "He sucked" from listening to only two "disaster" "awful" performances (I haven't heard of either one).

A discussion on recordings needs absolutely no personal insults, phrases like "He sucked" can be really hurtful to some people. Especially people who hold him to high regard. 

[marvinbrown]

 A very interesting thread Mark and sadly I only have one recording with Bernstein conducting.  That recording is with the Weiner Philharmoniker playing Mozart's Late symphonies and Symphonies 25 & 29 and is very good.  

 On the other hand, as I looked through my 50+ opera collection I could not find any recording  with Bernstein as the conductor  .  In fact I have never read a rave review of Bernstein conducting any opera for that matter.  Why that is I do not know?  I know he conducted Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, but it is hardly the definitive recording to own. I rarely see Bernstein's name associated with Verdi, Puccini, R. Strauss, Donezetti.  It seems he is constantly trumped by Solti, Furtwangler, Bohm, Karajan, Serafin, Abbado and so on.  Perhaps somebody here can shed some light on why Bernstein's opera conducting skills are "unpopular" for lack of a better word??

 marvin  

[MishaK]

Mark, what's wrong with you? Have you been reading too much Lebrecht? What's with these hyperbolic false dichotomies? Where is the nuance?

Favorite Lenny recordings:

Holst - The Planets / NYPO / Sony

Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris / NYPO / Sony

Ives - Symphonies Nos. 2 & 3, Central Park in the Dark / NYPO / Sony

Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique / NYPO / Sony

Shostakovich - Symphonies 1 & 7 / CSO / DG

I actually like that Tallis Fantasy too. I have it on a disc with a killer performance of RVW's 4th.

But it could also be argued that his greatest strength of all was his sheer passion for music, i.e., his ability to encourage people to listen to something they might not normally like, or to uncover things in music that others didn't see.  (He was one of the first Charles Ives advocates, for example, back in the 1960s before Ives became more widely known.)  If you ever have a chance to see his Harvard lectures (available on DVD) they are quite something.

That, his TV broadcasts, the tours with the NY Phil to the American hinterland, his Young People's Concerts are certainly Lenny's greatest legacy. He's probably done more to spread classical music in the US than anyone since Toscanini and Stokowski.

[Mark]

I could care less about what you thought about some of the recording Lenny made. But, from my experience, his status as the interpretor of Schumann and Mahler symphonies are legendary. You might not know how to appreciate his style, well, too bad for you. I and many others quite enjoy his interpretations of Mahler and Schumann, but I guess you won't be able to find out, since you are so disgusted by his Sibelius and Williams, well, too bad for you.

I am still quite baffled at how you can determine that "He sucked" from listening to only two "disaster" "awful" performances (I haven't heard of either one).

A discussion on recordings needs absolutely no personal insults, phrases like "He sucked" can be really hurtful to some people. Especially people who hold him to high regard. 

No need to take my view personally, MT. It wasn't an attack on Bernstein fans.

[Mark]

Mark, what's wrong with you? Have you been reading too much Lebrecht?

I actually like that Tallis Fantasy too. I have it on a disc with a killer performance of RVW's 4th.

That's the disc I refer to. I still maintain I've heard better.

[marvinbrown]

Mark, what's wrong with you? Have you been reading too much Lebrecht? What's with these hyperbolic false dichotomies? Where is the nuance?

Favorite Lenny recordings:

Holst - The Planets / NYPO / Sony

Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris / NYPO / Sony

Ives - Symphonies Nos. 2 & 3, Central Park in the Dark / NYPO / Sony

Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique / NYPO / Sony

Shostakovich - Symphonies 1 & 7 / CSO / DG

  Just as I suspected...no operas.

  marvin