Leonard Bernstein conducting

[Anne]

Regarding the Shostakovich/CSO 7th Sym. performance, I read that one of the reasons it turned out so well because Bernstein started the march in the first movement so ppp and then firmly controlled the speed of the orchestra's gradual crescendo to the finale.

[karlhenning]

Yes, Anne, sometimes following the score is the key to a successful performance 

Seriously:  carrying that section off so that is vital throughout is crucial to making the first movement work.  And not everyone has succeeded at that.

[Anne]

   

[Mark]

Just because a member's opinion is per se invalid doesn't mean that he/she needs to apologize for expressing it ....... People spout off clearly erroneous garbage all of the time ........ It's good for a laugh! 


Now, don't you feel better? 

Well, I thought the least I could do after my (admittedly hyperbolic) rant last night - I was tired and stressed, BTW - was to apologise for going to an unnecessary extreme.

However, if further Bernstein listening confirms my declared prejudice against his work as a conductor, you can be sure I'll be back here like a bat out of hell with an axe to grind. Though quite how a bat could carry an axe, I've no idea ...

[karlhenning]

We're friends here, and one allows a little rant-room . . . .

[Daverz]

Assuming anyone is still interested, here's a short list of some favorite Bernstein recordings.  All are US Columbia recordings unless specified otherwise.  Perhaps Mark can tell us which of these suck and why.

All of the Columbia Copland and Ives
Berlioz, Hector: Harold en Italie (with Lincer), Symphonie Fantastique (1963)*
Diamond, David: Symphony No 4
Thompson, Randall: Symphony No 2 in E minor
Harris, Roy: Symphony No 3
Foss, Lukas: Time Cycle
Gershwin: An American in Paris
Goldmark, Karl: Rustic Wedding Symphony
Haydn, Franz Joseph: Symphonies Nos  82-87, "Paris"
Hindemith, Paul: Symphony in E flat major
Honegger, Arthur: Pacific 231; Rugby
Liszt, Franz: Faust Symphony
Bernstein, Leonard: Serenade (Kremer on DG)
Mahler, Gustav: Des Knaben Wunderhorn (with Ludwig and Berry)
Milhaud, Darius: La Création du Monde, Le Boeuf sur le toit (on EMI)
Milhaud, Darius: Les Choéphores
Roussel, Albert: Symphony No 3 in G minor
Nielsen, Carl: Symphony No 5; Clarinet Concerto (w/Drucker); Flute Concerto (w/Baker)
Ravel, Maurice: La Valse
Respighi, Ottorino: Pines of Rome, Roman Festivals
Revueltas, Silvestre: Sensemayá
Schuman, William: Symphony No  3, 8; Symphony for Strings in 3 Movements
Schumann, Robert: Symphony No 1 & 2 (haven't gotten around to Bernstein's 3 & 4 yet.)
Shapero, Harold: Symphony for Classical Orchestra
Shostakovich, Dmitri: Piano Concertos; Symphonies 1, 5, 6, 9
Sibelius, Jean: Symphony No 5 in E flat major
Stravinsky, Igor: Le Noces (DG)
Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Symphony No 5 in E minor

Anyone seriously interested in Mahler will need to investigate Bernstein's Columbia and DG recordings.  The NYP 2nd in the Bernstein Century series may be a good place to start.

For his Beethoven, I prefer the VPO set, which is very much "big band" Beethoven.  But there are many who prefer the earlier NYP recordings, the Eroica in particular.

There are a few things that I love but would not generally recommend, like the ultra-slow Tchaikovsky 6 on DG.  The Beethoven quartets with the VPO won't appeal to everyone, but I think these are very special.

* Contrary to what Sony says, the 1968 Symphonie fantastique has only appeared on CD once, with one of those CBS Great Performances newspaper covers.  I haven't heard it yet.  Both the Royal Edition and Bernstein Century issues are of the 1963 recording, despite what the notes say.

[karlhenning]

I'm glad you got the Schuman non Schumann up there, Daverz!  As well as the Hindemith, though I must chide you for failing to mention the Konzertmusik Opus 50 for strings and brass.

[BachQ]

Anyone seriously interested in Mahler will need to investigate Bernstein's Columbia and DG recordings.  The NYP 2nd in the Bernstein Century series may be a good place to start.

...... and the DVD's .......

[Daverz]

I'm glad you got the Schuman non Schumann up there, Daverz!  As well as the Hindemith, though I must chide you for failing to mention the Konzertmusik Opus 50 for strings and brass.

Well, consider it included.  It's on the same CD, and I was just trimming lines.

[not edward]

Nielsen, Carl: Symphony No 5; Clarinet Concerto (w/Drucker); Flute Concerto (w/Baker)
Schuman, William: Symphony No  3, 8; Symphony for Strings in 3 Movements

Oo. Now there's two and a half hours' worth of outstanding (sometimes visceral) performances that I've not listened to for far too long.

Time to correct this.

[Mark]

Perhaps Mark can tell us which of these suck and why.

Or perhaps not.

[Brian]

A seven minute Nimrod?

Jeez    ! I'll stick with his Dvorak Seven, thank you. The slow movement is taken fairly slowly, granted, but the result is beautiful. And there's no arguing with that final coda...

...and yes, this is the second time I've promoted the recording in this thread. 

[Mark]

My reading about Bernstein earlier today confirms what many have said (and I've experienced): Lenny could be wickedly wayward with tempi, to the point of misshaping musical structure. He's praised and criticised in equal measure, which seems entirely fair, but is/was perhaps a little more lauded (so far as I could discern) for his work as a composer and educator than as a conductor - though certainly, orchestral instrumentalists who worked under his baton had good things to say about him on this front, too.

[BachQ]

He's praised and criticised in equal measure,

....... wha' e'ver .......


(maybe you should quit while you still have breathing room, Mark)

[Mark]

(maybe you should quit while you still have breathing room, Mark)

Yes. Excellent idea.

Let's lock this baby up before I lose any last tiny shread of credibility I might ever have imagined myself to have around these parts.

[MISHUGINA]

In my opinion, Brahms' 2nd symphony was supposedly reek with mushy sentimentalism but what a shocker to discover this disc. I've rarely heard anything so movingly played by Vienna Philharmonic, especially the beginning of the first movement. Maestro Lenny is always heart-on-sleeve sort of a conductor and there are misses (like his late Tchaik 6) but this is one of his most glorious hits. I heard Penguin record guide giving this the highest recommendation, is it true?

[springrite]

This is indeed one of those surpringly glorious recordings by Lenny. I heard the 3rd first, and I could not stand it! But something prompted me to buy the second, and it has remained a favorite ever since.

No idea what penguin guide said, nor do I care.

[BorisG]

As with most Bernstein, there is good and often great to be had. In this instance, the length of 48 minutes undoes much of the good for me. Weighing it against his 40-minute 1962, I find it no contest.

This is a common Early vs Late Bernstein difference, staying a little longer with the VPO string section.

[hornteacher]

In my personal opinion there are two types of Bernstein recordings: the REALLY fantastic ones and the REALLY drawn out overly emotional ones.  Having recently watched his biography in the American Masters series, I'd like to collect a few more recordings (both CD and DVD) and would like some suggestions as to which recordings represent his best conducting work.

[Brian]

Here's one which I think you in particular will enjoy: an excellent, excellent recording of the Dvorak Symphony No 7, in Sony's Bernstein Century series. My introduction to the conductor, as hard as it is to believe. He shows admirable restraint throughout, really lets the music sing for itself, until the finale, which really packs a punch!