Started by vers la flamme, July 24, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
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Quote from: vers la flamme on July 25, 2023, 06:01:17 AMI think I would agree that the musics of Sciarrino, Lachenmann, and Scelsi (at least what little I have heard) has very little to do with the touchstones of previous music, things like melody, harmony, rhythm, development of motives etc. I'm not sure whether they have abandoned timbre or made it the key focus of their works. At least to take a piece like Lachenmann's first string quartet for example, I've heard it described as "musique concrète instrumentale", with the connotation that the sounds produced by the strings are sound objects, to be manipulated similarly to how a tape artist might mix and match sound effects recorded on magnetic tape (or in the present day, I suppose, digital audio, though I have yet to hear any digital musique concrète, maybe I should try and make some with Ableton ) rather than traditionally developed à la Beethoven or Schoenberg. As you say, presenting music in this manner may prove influential as it's an entirely new way to conceptualize and write music. That being said, I'm not entirely sure that this is an escape from music altogether. Lachenmann, Scelsi and Sciarrino do this, but...... arguable. Edit: I don't know which mod moved this discussion into its own thread, but good call, I thought about requesting as much.
Quote from: atardecer on July 25, 2023, 07:14:18 PMI think referring to composers like Bruckner and Berlioz as 'modernist' or 'post-modernist' confuses the issue. They are both romantic composers in my view. I look at modernism as basically starting with Debussy, and all of the composers that use this basic kind of harmonic language as modernist so - Ravel, Bartok, Stravinsky, Poulenc etc. are modernists. Schoenberg I see as having some modernist traits but his music is expressionism and is in some ways the entry point or beginning of post modernism.
Quote from: hopefullytrusting on July 25, 2023, 10:05:40 PMAs a point of clarity, I view both Berlioz and Bruckner as modernist in their compositional orchestrations, but I feel musically that Berlioz is a romantic, but I do think, ultimately, that I find Bruckner more modernist than romantic.Interestingly, your second list of composers are part of what I'd call impressionism, which, I feel, predates modernism. Although, I feel Bartok does become modern to postmodern, and Stravinsky is completely context-dependent, as he freely moved from one phase to another, but I feel he is the most modern on that list, at least when he was in his neoclassical phase.
Quote from: atardecer on July 25, 2023, 10:43:41 PMI am more interested in learning, than I am in being 'right'.
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