The Classical Chat Thread

Started by DavidW, July 14, 2009, 08:39:17 AM

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jlaurson

Is this a "Classical" [i.e. Mozart] chat thread or a "classical" [chatting about classical music] chat thread?

If the latter, this little essay on Paris, Alexandre Tharaud, and EMI should be a perfect fit:


Paris in Passing

DavidW

Jens I think that a blog that long requires an abstract! :D  You kind of make Tharaud seem like Chopin himself as in "frail" sensitive artist. :D

Brian

I'll admit to continued bafflement over why Tharaud would jump from one of the most exciting record labels there is, to EMI. They must have been treating him very poorly at harmonia mundi.

And, on the bright side, maybe EMI will persuade him to record some chamber music with Reynaud and Gautier Capucon. Or the Faure piano quintets with the Quatuor Ebene - can you imagine how glorious an album that would be?

Brian

Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2010, 09:40:57 AM
Brian cool article, I'm especially in agreement over applauding before they've even done anything. :)

Actually, on that point, somebody just posted an excellent comment rebutting me: a performer who points out that "dead" audiences are disheartening and the applause just gets them energized and ready to go.  :)

jlaurson

Quote from: Brian on April 16, 2010, 08:03:09 AM
I'll admit to continued bafflement over why Tharaud would jump from one of the most exciting record labels there is, to EMI. They must have been treating him very poorly at harmonia mundi.

And, on the bright side, maybe EMI will persuade him to record some chamber music with Reynaud and Gautier Capucon.

Gawd, I hope not. I *hate* Gautier and Reynaud is boring me to tears. Neither of them musically up my alley. Let him continue to make music with Queyras and some fine violinist I haven't yet set my mind on.

Quote
Or the Faure piano quintets with the Quatuor Ebene - can you imagine how glorious an album that would be?

NOW we are talking!!!! A Trout with the Quatuor Ebene, Tharaud, and Olivier Thiery

jlaurson

Quote from: DavidW on April 16, 2010, 07:57:47 AM
Jens I think that a blog that long requires an abstract! :D  You kind of make Tharaud seem like Chopin himself as in "frail" sensitive artist. :D

Abstracts are too concrete.

Frailty: I wasn't thinking about that connection, actually. Probably because that's neither my view of Chopin (the wilting flower, expiring romantically on the ivory), nor the way that Tharaud plays it. In fact, he doesn't play at all how he looks---if one lets those stereotypes of fragility and paleness roam free.

karlhenning

Quote from: Brian on April 16, 2010, 08:04:21 AM
Actually, on that point, somebody just posted an excellent comment rebutting me: a performer who points out that "dead" audiences are disheartening and the applause just gets them energized and ready to go.  :)

Oh, did you object to 'acknowledgement applause', when the musician(s) first step out on to the stage?  Sure, I'd be a little deflated if there was just dead silence.

(A little different in a venue like the West End branch of the BPL, where there is no Green Room . . . but then there's more intimacy with the audience there, anyway.)

Brian

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 16, 2010, 08:35:56 AM
Oh, did you object to 'acknowledgement applause', when the musician(s) first step out on to the stage?  Sure, I'd be a little deflated if there was just dead silence.

(A little different in a venue like the West End branch of the BPL, where there is no Green Room . . . but then there's more intimacy with the audience there, anyway.)


Yes, sir, I did, possibly to my regret? Link
Relevant excerpt:

QuoteApplause is a sign of gratitude; all they've done is walk on. For too long we have encouraged such stars to indulge their egos by bowing and generally basking in applause before they even do anything. I am reminded of Robin Williams' stand-up comedy routine; he walks on the stage, says "Hello!" and is greeted by a cascade of cheers. Once the applause is finally over, he bows, says "Goodbye!" and pretends to leave. Williams is right: our desire to clap people walking onstage has gotten out of hand.

At a recent Houston Symphony concert, the orchestra played the Gustav Holst suite The Planets while a projector showed an HD video of satellite footage of each planet and its moons. There was a spoken video introduction with interviews of astronomers, and then, before the music could begin, the house lights came up so that the audience could clap as conductor Hans Graf walked onstage. I didn't clap. Graf could have walked on unobtrusively, modestly, during the video and saved us the energy. But it is we, the audience, who enable people like Graf to forget their modesty.

karlhenning

Under those circs, my call would have been to have the conductor be unobtrusive at the start.  So I have no quarrel to your quarrel ; )

Lethevich

STUPID QUESTION NUMBER 492772:

In Rachmaninoff's Paganini Variations, why does the first variation come before the theme, and why doesn't that make the theme the first variation of the "first variation"?
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

George

Quote from: Lethe on April 17, 2010, 07:06:49 AM
STUPID QUESTION NUMBER 492772:

In Rachmaninoff's Paganini Variations, why does the first variation come before the theme, and why doesn't that make the theme the first variation of the "first variation"?

Good question. I have never researched this, but I'd bet that the composer wrote it with the theme first and later decided that it didn't work well as an opening. A Music Theory professor told me when I was in school that it isn't a strict theme and variations, but more of a "fantasy" type variations. Perhaps this flexibility was part of the reason why the theme doesn't come first?   

Lethevich

That does sound feasable - I wonder why he didn't make a new bridge from the introduction section.

A final Rach-related question: which is most correct for the first movement of the 3rd PC: allegro ma non troppo, or allegro ma non tanto? It seems that record labels cannot decide - the Wikipedia article uses the former, but then reverts to the second to title the embedded clip on the page.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

Quote from: Lethe on April 17, 2010, 07:06:49 AM
STUPID QUESTION NUMBER 492772:

In Rachmaninoff's Paganini Variations, why does the first variation come before the theme, and why doesn't that make the theme the first variation of the "first variation"?

Not a stupid question at all, SaraRakhmaninov is picking up on a game that Beethoven started with the finale of the Sinfonia eroica . . . which similarly begins not with a full-dressed theme per se, but with the harmonic skeleton of the theme.

karlhenning

Quote from: Lethe on April 17, 2010, 07:35:39 AM
A final Rach-related question: which is most correct for the first movement of the 3rd PC: allegro ma non troppo, or allegro ma non tanto? It seems that record labels cannot decide - the Wikipedia article uses the former, but then reverts to the second to title the embedded clip on the page.

The Boosey & Hawkes pocket score is engraved Allegro ma non tanto.

George

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 17, 2010, 12:51:05 PM
The Boosey & Hawkes pocket score is engraved Allegro ma non tanto.

That is also the tempo indication on the Naxos and RCA masterings of the composers recording of this work.

Lethevich

Hmm, thanks - I guess I'll override the decision of certain other labels and tag all of them with tanto.

At a glance, troppo does seem to be in a vast minority of all my copies, with Janis/Dorati/Minneapolis (Mercury) as one exception. Weird, but annoyingly typical that the WP article is wrong - generally classical music people are not keen on using that thing (which is a shame, as it is a potentially essential resource for this genre), so we have perfectly polished pop articles but junk ones on classical :( There are so many obscure composer articles using unorthodox spellings that can't really be changed by a single person as it requires a small group consensus, and there is no such group.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Brian

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 17, 2010, 12:48:18 PM
Not a stupid question at all, SaraRakhmaninov is picking up on a game that Beethoven started with the finale of the Sinfonia eroica . . . which similarly begins not with a full-dressed theme per se, but with the harmonic skeleton of the theme.

You took the thought right out of my mind, Karl.  8)

Lethevich

Until 3 minutes ago I thought Trevor Pinnock was born in Australia.

WTF did I get that idea from? :'(
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

DavidW

I've heard the 38th and the 41st symphonies of Mozart for the first time today. :)

Wait?  What!?  By that I mean though I've heard many recordings of those works, I did not realize how dynamic and expressive they should be.  From powerful crescendos to elegant minuet interruptions to transparent layered sound from the orchestra, the performance of Jacob and the Freiburger Orchestra showed me what Mozart's music really sounds like.  My eyes are opened, I have heard the definitive performance of these works, AND I LOVE IT!!! :) :) :) :)

8)

DarkAngel

#379
Quote from: DavidW on April 29, 2010, 07:20:54 AM
I've heard the 38th and the 41st symphonies of Mozart for the first time today. :)

Wait?  What!?  By that I mean though I've heard many recordings of those works, I did not realize how dynamic and expressive they should be.  From powerful crescendos to elegant minuet interruptions to transparent layered sound from the orchestra, the performance of Jacob and the Freiburger Orchestra showed me what Mozart's music really sounds like.  My eyes are opened, I have heard the definitive performance of these works, AND I LOVE IT!!!

I made a similar "definitive proclamation" in the HIP Mozart thread....... ;)

Quote from: DarkAngel on March 25, 2010, 07:20:20 AM

 

Extremely impressed with the new Jacobs 39,40 CD.......
One of the rare performances that makes you think you are hearing these standards fresh again for the 1st time, the music lines are so clarified and transparent you hear all kinds of little details obscured by other versions. Bold, exciting outer movements, charming overall with excellent modern sound from Harmonia Mundi. Comes in 3 panel digipak (2 panel digipak for 38,41 CD), similar in stye to Immerseel recent CD but even better overall

I have 15+ versions of Mozart 38-41 and it may seem impossible choose the best from so many great ones, but I will do it anyway and say Jacobs/HM are now my reference performances