The Classical Chat Thread

Started by DavidW, July 14, 2009, 08:39:17 AM

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karlhenning

But . . . I've already got the LvB symphonies loaded. Can you imagine? Beethoven even before The Beatles ; )

MN Dave

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 22, 2010, 06:07:12 AM
But . . . I've already got the LvB symphonies loaded. Can you imagine? Beethoven even before The Beatles ; )

Yes, there is a hierarchy even among gods.  0:)

Lethevich

I just noticed something - with all the composers credited with writing nine symphonies (Bruckner, Schubert, Mahler) who sort of didn't, technically - why not Tchaikovsky too? The Manfred Symphony makes seven, the unfinished "7th" makes eight, and the Orchestral Suite No.3, which he was originally going to designate a symphony* (Das Lied von der Erde anyone?) caps the nine... :-*

*"I meant to write a symphony, but the title is no importance"
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

MN Dave

#543
You know that high, piercing sound violins can reach that sounds sort of like a tea kettle? Yeah, that's pretty cool.


jlaurson


ArkivMusic has put all the WETA 2010 Choices on Sale: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/listPage.jsp?list_id=2114&source=WETA

Titles will be on sale through January 11th.

Lethevich

A followup to the recent "which Raff cycle do I choose" talk: I just ran into an intriguing "might be" here.

(A Chandos employee saying "We are talking to Neeme Jarvi about Raff symphonies right now!".)
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Brian

Ugh... I do wish it weren't Neeme Jarvi. He'll just direct all of them really quickly and emotionlessly.

Although that may not be totally fair. I saw him this year, the first time I've seen him live since I lived in Detroit from 2001-2005 and suffered through his directorship (he was ill and sluggish and conducted listlessly from a chair), and he seemed reasonably energized and communicated with the musicians fairly well. The performance (Dvorak Te Deum and Stabat Mater) was typically fast and not particularly Bohemian, but the orchestra and chorus were on top form and the results exciting...

Still kind of wish it weren't Neeme Jarvi. Hmm. Thomas Dausgaard, maybe.

Lethevich

I do wonder what the heck Chandos will do once Neeme dies - his son at least seems to have greater ambitions than holding up an independent. They will have enough trouble replacing Hickox, but finding somebody they can reliably trust to produce high quality standard rep recordings on a low budget might be hard. He may not have been the most scintillating conductor, but on the whole he was very good (although I can't speak so much about his recent performance).
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

Quote from: Brian on December 29, 2010, 12:28:02 PM
Ugh... I do wish it weren't Neeme Jarvi. He'll just direct all of them really quickly and emotionlessly.

And why should he treat Raff any better than he did Prokofiev? ; )

Brian

Quote from: Lethe on December 29, 2010, 12:32:39 PM
I do wonder what the heck Chandos will do once Neeme dies - his son at least seems to have greater ambitions than holding up an independent. They will have enough trouble replacing Hickox, but finding somebody they can reliably trust to produce high quality standard rep recordings on a low budget might be hard. He may not have been the most scintillating conductor, but on the whole he was very good (although I can't speak so much about his recent performance).

Yep, Paavo is already used to serving up Beethoven on RCA - although Neeme, too, once released standard fare on DG. Chandos does have a lot of gifted soloists in the stable (Bavouzet, for starters), and maybe they turn to conductors like Martyn Brabbins? A collaboration on Brabbins' live Gothic Symphony next year might be a great start  8)

Lethevich

The proms Gothic's appearance on disc I feel is somewhat inevitable - much as Chandos released Foulds' World Requiem on disc after a live performance - some works are too notable not to release, even if "only" in live performance.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

Classical Music Survey - 250 Compositions

A very interesting list, Bill! What prompted you to compile it?

Fëanor

#553
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 31, 2010, 10:20:15 AM
Classical Music Survey - 250 Compositions

A very interesting list, Bill! What prompted you to compile it?
I'm not a musician or musically trained in any way; when my interest in (classical) music revived a few years ago, I need a way to learn about the repertoire and not waste too much time either (1) listening to the same stuff over & over again, or (2) listening to a lot minor works while overlooking the biggies.  This is to say, I compiled the above list for my own education. I had recourse to a number of popular books on classical music, as well as few websites, were I noted and compare the recommendations. I listed these findings in a spreadsheet.  My behind-the-scene inclusive list is comprised of over a thousand items.  At first I had no notion of sharing my results with other people.

However I decide to condense the full list to 250 to refine my own listening priorities and, also, in order to share with other not very well-informed people like myself.  This I did by recording the authors' relative ratings, and then selecting those works that had the most and strongest recommendations.  All the data was on a spreadsheet which I then analysed in MS Access.  I fiddle raw results to a very minor extent to suit my own tastes, e.g. to force inclusion of a few more contemporary works than arose stricly from the source recommendations.

So basically the list isn't really my own but owes most of its substance to the work of other writers;  I can get around to listing my principal sources is anyone is interested.




karlhenning

Well done!

As I was perusing it, the following questions arose naturally, or what for me will pass for naturally . . . don't  feel obliged, though I am curious in any case where you feel inspired to answer.

I don't think I've ever heard Albéniz's Iberia orchestrated (some of it transcribed for guitar trio, yes). Have you had a chance to check out the piano original?

If you're game to bump the Chaconne from the BWV 1004 (as included in the following item, BWV 1001-1006, you've room for another piece
: )

Similar duplication-by-inclusion with the Carter Second Quartet.

I'm a great fan of Berlioz, so I must ask if you've had any chance/desire to check out his work beyond the Fantastique and the Requiem?

You've just one Hindemith work listed (and it's the obligatory Mathis der Maler Symphony) . . . tell me that's not the only Hindemith you've listened to!
: )

Oh, but for Nielsen you must at least add the Clarinet Concerto.

I don't think I've ever seen Stalingrad tied to the Prokofiev Sonata № 7 . . . that's got me curious . . . .

Interesting that the one Satie line is the Gnossiennes, and not you-know-what!

The Sibelius Symphony № 4 . . . it looks almost as if Tapiola is proposed as a nickname for the symphony?

There is the occasional typo, but I don't want to make myself a complete nuisance.

Really impressed that you set about this so methodically! Well done, again!

petrarch

Quote from: Feanor on December 31, 2010, 11:54:27 AM
However I decide to condense the full list to 250 to refine my own listening priorities

But surely you already know some of the entries, no? Also, I think one way to 'optimize' it would be to start with one work of each type (say, chamber, concerto, symphony, vocal, and overlaps could also be optimized away) for each composer and see where that leads you. As Karl pointed out, there seems to be some redundancy in a few of the entries and that way you might get a better cross section of the output of a composer, but that would imply a composer-centric approach, which might not be what you are interested in.

Stimmung, really? Not Gruppen or Kontakte? No Le Marteau sans Maître?
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Fëanor

#556
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 31, 2010, 12:33:19 PM
Well done!

As I was perusing it, the following questions arose naturally, or what for me will pass for naturally . . . don't  feel obliged, though I am curious in any case where you feel inspired to answer.

I don't think I've ever heard Albéniz's Iberia orchestrated (some of it transcribed for guitar trio, yes). Have you had a chance to check out the piano original?

If you're game to bump the Chaconne from the BWV 1004 (as included in the following item, BWV 1001-1006, you've room for another piece
: )

Similar duplication-by-inclusion with the Carter Second Quartet.

I'm a great fan of Berlioz, so I must ask if you've had any chance/desire to check out his work beyond the Fantastique and the Requiem?

You've just one Hindemith work listed (and it's the obligatory Mathis der Maler Symphony) . . . tell me that's not the only Hindemith you've listened to!
: )

Oh, but for Nielsen you must at least add the Clarinet Concerto.

I don't think I've ever seen Stalingrad tied to the Prokofiev Sonata № 7 . . . that's got me curious . . . .

Interesting that the one Satie line is the Gnossiennes, and not you-know-what!

The Sibelius Symphony № 4 . . . it looks almost as if Tapiola is proposed as a nickname for the symphony?

There is the occasional typo, but I don't want to make myself a complete nuisance.

Really impressed that you set about this so methodically! Well done, again!

Thank you, Karl.  I appreciate positive from knowledgable people like yourself, (a composer no less!).

The duplications you mentioned obviously need correction; I noticed the Carter myself when at my first look in while at the list.  Also, the Symphony No. 7 is (fairly obviously) incorrectly attribued to Prokofiev instead of Shostakovich.  But these things really just typos and easy to correct, (watch for Ed. 3c).

I can't argue the merits of Nielsen's Clarinet Concert; I dont' have a copy and might never have heard it.  However here's the point: it just didn't make the recommended lists of the sources I used.

Obviously no two people in the entire world would agree on exactly the same list, but I will take your comments into the question.  In particular, I forced a few inclusions & exclusions based on my own taste against the "experts" recommendations:  these are limited my my own listening experience and I'm always ready to reconsider them.

Yes, my approach was methodical, and I give myself due credit for that.  Of course I will continue to reconsider and refine the list over time.

Fëanor

#557
Quote from: petrarch on December 31, 2010, 05:15:12 PM
But surely you already know some of the entries, no? Also, I think one way to 'optimize' it would be to start with one work of each type (say, chamber, concerto, symphony, vocal, and overlaps could also be optimized away) for each composer and see where that leads you. As Karl pointed out, there seems to be some redundancy in a few of the entries and that way you might get a better cross section of the output of a composer, but that would imply a composer-centric approach, which might not be what you are interested in.

Stimmung, really? Not Gruppen or Kontakte? No Le Marteau sans Maître?
Thank you for your comments, petrach: very much appreciated.

My basic approach was to find frequently and/or highly recommended works regardless of composer.  (I can say, though, that more than one of my sources first identified composers, then representative works.)

I felt compelled, however, to make a few personal choices.  Mostly my choices were either to (1) reduce just a bit the number of Romantic works, (2) add contemporary works such as those by Carter, Birtwhistle, Xenakis, Crumb, et al., (3) include a few more chambers works, such as the Arensky, and Carther and Crumb (-- dual purpose additions!).  Certainly I have to admit that my personal choices were constrained by my still-limited listening experience.