What - no thread about how the moon landings were faked?

[Elgarian]

We can then do a mathematical calculation on the power that would be required for such a system.

Please do! I would like to see your work!

Second that.  The physics that I studied at university (Oxford, class of '76) included a great deal of thermodynamics (more than I would have wished, to be perfectly honest) and many of my textbooks are on the shelves behind me now.  I would be more than happy for you to take me through any calculations in support of your arguments.

Well now, Mr Newman - as you see we are queueing up here. I have a degree in physics, and a degree in radio astronomy also, so I too would be interested in checking through your calculations. Come, show us what you're made of, Sir. Dazzle us with your mastery of the intricacies of heat transfer, radiation theory and its associated mathematics.

Come on everyone - Mr Newman is going to show us some detailed mathematics to support his claims. Don't miss it! In years to come, you'll be able to tell your grandchildren: 'I was there.'

[Elgarian]

Thirded. I am very interested in seeing the mathematics and physics that support your hypothesis.

Oh look! Four of us! (Never were so many so doomed to disappointment by so feeble a promise.)

[The new erato]

Having a M SC in Electrical Engineering with specialization in Microwaves and the Electrical Properties of Materials, as well as being an part-time Associate Professor of Mathematics in the local business school (my main job is in Finance) I am also looking forward to it. Would unmitigated glee be an understandable English expression?

[Elgarian]

Would unmitigated glee be an understandable English expression?

Indeed! It's looking like a party! Five breathlessly waiting scientists ....

[Florestan]

My credentials are those of M.SC. in Mechanical Engineering with specialization in Heat Transfer and Fluid Mechanics.

Please pass the popcorn, gentlemen!

[The new erato]

My credentials are those of M.SC. in Mechanical Engineering with specialization in Heat Transfer and Fluid Mechanics.

Please pass the popcorn, gentlemen!

I can hardly wait for Navier-Stokes to be applied to a vacuum.

Edit: Or in rob's case; by a vacuum.

[robnewman]

You wouldn't recognize the concept of documented evidence if it bit you in the ass.

Well, Erato, documented evidence of the Apollo moon landings is still to be presented. Why not post it here ? Since 40 years have passed you might accept that 'Houston has a few problems' ! 

Who would believe grown adults would still believe this nonsense ? Isn't it embarassing ?

[robnewman]

Well now, Mr Newman - as you see we are queueing up here. I have a degree in physics, and a degree in radio astronomy also, so I too would be interested in checking through your calculations. Come, show us what you're made of, Sir. Dazzle us with your mastery of the intricacies of heat transfer, radiation theory and its associated mathematics.

Come on everyone - Mr Newman is going to show us some detailed mathematics to support his claims. Don't miss it! In years to come, you'll be able to tell your grandchildren: 'I was there.'

Thank you Elgarian,

I accept the challenge. But first, please give us your own. After all, you claim man walked on the lunar surface in space suits which were cooled by a system built in to their suits ! You say people are crazy who do not believe it. That their landing craft withstood (like them) the bombardment of the sun's rays and of solar radiation. And that in later missions they even played lunar golf ! Yeh, right ?

In 1969 lots of people believed this stuff. That was the generation of 'Lost in Space' - complete with cardboard rocks and alien monsters. Today is 2009. Is it not time you stopped making a fool of yourself ?

Yes, let's see the details of this cooling system in their suits and in the landing craft. This is going to be really interesting. The whole system driven by torch batteries, right ? Hahahaha - it's hilarious !!!

[Herman]

I'm going to quote (selectively) from the GMG Guidelines, just to suggest that from day one mr Newman has been in violation. Admittedly the idea is to confine him to a limited nr of threads, but still I don't see what good comes from his participation  -  which obviously is no participation whatsoever, but just a serial attempt to irritate and hector other members.

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[robnewman]

I'm going to quote (selectively) from the GMG Guidelines, just to suggest that from day one mr Newman has been in violation. Admittedly the idea is to confine him to a limited nr of threads, but still I don't see what good comes from his participation  -  which obviously is no participation whatsoever, but just a serial attempt to irritate and hector other members.

On the contrary - this thread is dealing with how the Moon landings were faked. And you have promised to show us differently in respect of the air conditioning systems of the astronauts and their landing craft. It's hilarious. While we are waiting here are a few more emabrassing facts -

1. Blueprints and design and development drawings of the rockets and the landing craft of the Apollo missions are mysteriously missing. Apollo 11 data tapes containing telemetry and the high quality video (before scan conversion) of the first moonwalk are also amazingly missing.
(Source - NASA)

2. On July 16, 2009, NASA went in to lunatic mode. It indicated that it must have erased the original Apollo 11 moon footage years ago 'so that it could reuse the videotape.'.  

3. The air conditioning units that were supposedly part of the Apollo astronauts' spacesuits simply could not have worked in an environment of no atmosphere because there is no way to dissipate heat without being able to transmit energy through an atmosphere.  

During Earth training these astronaut suits used by the Apollo crews became so hot to moving astronauts they had to be subjected to intensely cold external air conditioning after more than a few minutes.

So we wait for your description of how this system of air conditioning worked and how it was powered.

This is hilarious, for sure !   Time for a cornflakes ad ? And all of this within the context of a lunar environment whose surface temperature ranged several hundreds of degrees during a single day. Not forgetting the bombardment of solar radiation, of course ! 

This is real fun !

[Florestan]

The air conditioning units that were supposedly part of the Apollo astronauts' spacesuits simply could not have worked in an environment of no atmosphere because there is no way to dissipate heat without being able to transmit energy through an atmosphere.  

So, according to your caloric theory, if you heat a body up to 500 degree Celsius (932 Fahrenheit) and then suspend it in a vacuum, it will stay at that temperature forever, right?

Besides, if your theory were true, it would invalidate your own allegations, because how then could the Sun transmit his tremendous heat to the Moon in the absence of an atmosphere?

[Rod Corkin]

3. The air conditioning units that were supposedly part of the Apollo astronauts' spacesuits simply could not have worked in an environment of no atmosphere because there is no way to dissipate heat without being able to transmit energy through an atmosphere.  

Funny how I found virtually this very same passage on the net...
http://www.bigmantra.com/man_on_moon/spacesuit.html

"The air conditioning units that were part of the astronauts' spacesuits could not have worked in an environment of no atmosphere. There is no way to dissipate heat without being able to transmit energy through an atmosphere."

To which there is the response on the same page...

  "This is simply wrong. While heat conduction requires an atmosphere, thermal radiation does not. (The latter process is how heat from the sun can reach the Earth through the vacuum of space.) All objects irradiate. In the case of Apollo, the space suits had no air conditioning units; instead, one of the many layers was the LCG (Liquid Cooling Garment), essentially a pair of long-johns embedded with a network of thin plastic tubes. The excess heat was picked up by water circulating through the tubes. The water was pumped into the backpack, where it was cooled by means of a heat-exchanger, then pumped back into the circuit (closed-loop system). The water-based heat exchanger comprised an open-circuit system, its warmed feedwater being expelled in the vacuum through a sublimator unit in the backpack. There was a 12-pound feedwater reserve, which provided some eight hours worth of cooling. Radiative cooling, although allowing for a much simpler system, is a process too slow to be of any practical use in a spacesuit. RTGs, for example, use radiative cooling because the volume constraints (required for the large heat-radiating fins) are not as tight as those for a spacesuit."

[robnewman]

So, according to your caloric theory, if you heat a body up to 500 degree Celsius (932 Fahrenheit) and then suspend it in a vacuum, it will stay at that temperature forever, right?

Besides, if your theory were true, it would invalidate your own allegations, because how then could the Sun transmit his tremendous heat to the Moon in the absence of an atmosphere?

Well, thanks for the diversionary question. But (in case you've missed the point) we want to know about the air conditioning of the Apollo astronauts during their time walking on the lunar surface. We're still waiting. It promises to be much fun. Please tell us how the variations in temperature (which the Apollo designers supposedly compensated for) were fuelled and overcome by astronauts walking around in space suits. And please tell us how the lunar module was itself cooled and regulated between these extremes of hundreds of degrees in a single day. Not forgetting, of course, the solar radiation.

Maybe they carried penlight batteries ?

You see, let me make it so simple that even you can understand it. If an astronaut is walking around on Earth in his space suit he will quickly heat up. That's why, during the Apollo training, they needed very cold air conditioners, so that training of men in suits could occur. OK ?

Well, on the moon, there are NO air conditioners so the astronauts quickly heated up in their space suits. Please tell us how this problem was overcome in their suits and how it was overcome in the lunar module itself. Since the extremes of temperature are huge on the moon. And there is still the problem of the solar radiation.

Maybe we will get an answer this time ?

[Florestan]

To which there is the response on the same page...

He never pays attention to any factual response he gets, nor does he answer any specific question he's been asked. He just repeats ad nauseam his big mantra.

[robnewman]

Funny how I found virtually this very same passage on the net...
http://www.bigmantra.com/man_on_moon/spacesuit.html

"The air conditioning units that were part of the astronauts' spacesuits could not have worked in an environment of no atmosphere. There is no way to dissipate heat without being able to transmit energy through an atmosphere."

To which there is the response on the same page...

  "This is simply wrong. While heat conduction requires an atmosphere, thermal radiation does not. (The latter process is how heat from the sun can reach the Earth through the vacuum of space.) All objects irradiate. In the case of Apollo, the space suits had no air conditioning units; instead, one of the many layers was the LCG (Liquid Cooling Garment), essentially a pair of long-johns embedded with a network of thin plastic tubes. The excess heat was picked up by water circulating through the tubes. The water was pumped into the backpack, where it was cooled by means of a heat-exchanger, then pumped back into the circuit (closed-loop system). The water-based heat exchanger comprised an open-circuit system, its warmed feedwater being expelled in the vacuum through a sublimator unit in the backpack. There was a 12-pound feedwater reserve, which provided some eight hours worth of cooling. Radiative cooling, although allowing for a much simpler system, is a process too slow to be of any practical use in a spacesuit. RTGs, for example, use radiative cooling because the volume constraints (required for the large heat-radiating fins) are not as tight as those for a spacesuit."

Yes Rod, facts are everywhere and we are not couch potatoes. We refer to facts when we are making a point. It may seem 'strange' to you but that's what conversations are all about. Right  

Tell us how the air conditioning systems of the lunar lander and the astronauts themselves were powered. This should be really interesting. And how the solar radiation was overcome by aluminium foil. That will be really interesting.

Nobody can accuse you Rod of being 'dumbed down', right ?   - as you say -

In the case of Apollo, the space suits had no air conditioning units; instead, one of the many layers was the LCG (Liquid Cooling Garment), essentially a pair of long-johns embedded with a network of thin plastic tubes.

Ah !!! That's the answer !!! Hi tech stuff like that to overcome hundreds of degrees of temperature fluctations on the Moon and which can withstand solar radiation bombardment.

Wow !!!!!! Where's John Wayne when you need him ? 

[Rod Corkin]

Yes Rod, facts are everywhere and we are not couch potatoes. We refer to facts when we are making a point. It may seem 'strange' to you but that's what conversations are all about. Right  

Tell us how the air conditioning systems of the lunar lander and the astronauts themselves were powered. This should be really interesting. And how the solar radiation was overcome by aluminium foil. That will be really interesting.

Nobody can accuse you Rod of being 'dumbed down', right ?  

I'm not dumb, but I'm no expert in this field either yet it took me less than a minute to find information that successfully refutes your position on the spacesuit. Now to the lunar lander issue...

[robnewman]

I'm not dumb, but I'm no expert in this field either yet it took me less than a minute to find information that successfully refutes your position on the spacesuit. Now to the lunar lander issue...

Er, no.

Back to the drawing board Rod.

ON EARTH a man in a space suit heats up - FAST. During the Apollo training the astronauts heated up, FAST. They needed EXTERNAL air conditioners to operate. FACT.

Now, on the Moon, where the temperatures range several hundreds of degrees the suits heated up FAST. Right. But there were NO air conditioners on the Moon, were there Rod ? Not only that, but the astronauts were being bombarded by solar radiation (and had been for days). Tell us how a system of water pipes could have cooled them down. This is hocus pocus. And what was the power source ? You will tell us, won't you ?  

Was it -

a. A nuclear power station ?

b. A car battery ?

c. A paraffin heater ?

d. A log fire ?

e. A coal fire ?

[Florestan]

Well, thanks for the diversionary question.

Two things, Mr. Wiseguy.

First, a sound theory is one that applies not only to a particular situation, but to a whole range of phenomena. In this case, you came up with a theory of heat transfer that doesn't hold any water. You have been repeatedly pointed to some basic sources of information regarding this subject which is obviously as mysterious to you as the other side of the Moon (pun intended in the context) and you chose to ignore them.

Second, it's your zillionth non-answer to a specific question.

You see, let me make it so simple that even you can understand it. If an astronaut is walking around on Earth in his space suit he will quickly heat up. That's why, during the Apollo training, they needed very cold air conditioners, so that training of men in suits could occur. OK ?

Not OK at all. Do you fancy that their training and the testing of the spacesuits (cooling system included) was done in open air? The controlled environment for their training simulated the temperature and vacuum conditions on the Moon, this is just elementary common-sense which you seem to be lacking. Youtube may be a good source for fun but if that's where you learned your physics and scientific method you're in big trouble when talking to even an average 8-grader.

Well, on the moon, there are NO air conditioners so the astronauts quickly heated up in their space suits. Please tell us how this problem was overcome in their suits and how it was overcome in the lunar module itself.

You have been told that repeatedly. You never paid any attention.

Maybe we will get an answer this time ?

Coming from you, this is the top of ridicule. Are you really that fond of making such a pathetic fool of yourself?

[robnewman]

Two things, Mr. Wiseguy.

First, a sound theory is one that applies not only to a particular situation, but to a whole range of phenomena. In this case, you came up with a theory of heat transfer that doesn't hold any water. You have been repeatedly pointed to some basic sources of information regarding this subject which is obviously as mysterious to you as the other side of the Moon (pun intended in the context) and you chose to ignore them.

Second, it's your zillionth non-answer to a specific question.

Not OK at all. Do you fancy that their training and the testing of the spacesuits (cooling system included) was done in open air? The controlled environment for their training simulated the temperature and vacuum conditions on the Moon, this is just elementary common-sense which you seem to be lacking. Youtube may be a good source for fun but if that's where you learned your physics and scientific method you're in big trouble when talking to even an average 8-grader.

You have been told that repeatedly. You never paid any attention.

Coming from you, this is the top of ridicule. Are you really that fond of making such a pathetic fool of yourself?

Florestan is going to tell us about the power source for this nonsense -

Florestan, was it

a) A coal fire ?
b) A nuclear reactor ?
c) A Paraffin heater ?
d) A 10 Ton Battery ?
e) A log fire ?
f) A piece of aluminium foil ?

[Rod Corkin]

This should keep Rob busy for a while..
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.haggath/apollopage3.html
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.haggath/apollopage4.html
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.haggath/apollopage5.html
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.haggath/apollopage6.html