Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Guys, there's no point arguing with Sean on this matter - greatness is what he says it is, just accept it and move on  0:)

BTW, is Purcell's keyboard music any good?

[Marc]

Has this clip been posted before?

About harpsichord tuning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfK3blfKE04

[The new erato]

Guys, there's no point arguing with Sean on this matter - greatness is what he says it is, just accept it and move on  0:)

BTW, is Purcell's keyboard music any good?

I'm not arguing with him either in this or in any other thread; I'm just telling him he's wrong. Again.

[Sean]

What is it with you bunch?

CRCulver, your examples aren't art music.

erato (you expect me to take seriously someone who calls himself a record label or Greek muse or something?- what you doing?)

So what you basically say is that nontonal music can never be great? Like Indian ragas, Webern, Machaut etc?

Yes. All these works have merit as art music in as far as they are tonal: try total serialism, eg the 1954 Stockhausen Klavierstucks or the early Ferneyhough quartets- all brainless rationalized garbage, being very polite.

Tonality has greater levels of correspondance with acoustic facts about consonance than any other harmonic system. If you haven't tried or your memory's failing, next time you're by a piano play C and C# and you'll find a discordant sound, whereas C and G is different. Argue your dumb way out of that.

I see the technicalities as defining the framework of composition, what the composers does, is fill the framework -whatever it is - with substance, and therein lies greatness and the composers genius

Only in terms of form. Melody however is music's highest component, as a moment's though will confirm.

And non-tonal frameworks aren't foreign to me, and tonality isn't subjective.

DavidW- yes Eric and me go back a long way. At least he seems to experience art.

Spitvalve (what kind of person, may I ask, wants to be called that? Are you a person or a big joke? Very obviously the latter.)

BTW, is Purcell's keyboard music any good?

No, it isn't much. And most listeners with any sensitivity to speak of agree, but not indeed the relativist unknowing horde.

[DavidW]

And most listeners with any sensitivity to speak of agree, but not indeed the relativist unknowing horde.

This is exactly how Newman argues, including the random insults to people (mocking their handles in this case).  Perhaps not appreciating serial music is your failing and not the composer's failing.  As Karl would say, you need to recalibrate your listening gear.

[bhodges]

Pre and post tonal works are interesting but lie outside what art music essentially is.

This is just complete nonsense (and my hunch is that you are trying to be provocative).  And further, it's more than presumptuous to claim to know "what art music essentially is."  Actually, based on that statement, I suspect you have no idea at all "what art music essentially is," since much of it seems to have bypassed you. 

--Bruce

[Gurn Blanston]

This is exactly how Newman argues, including the random insults to people (mocking their handles in this case).  Perhaps not appreciating serial music is your failing and not the composer's failing.  As Karl would say, you need to recalibrate your listening gear.

Newman may just be Sean's sock puppet, have we considered this?  The similarities are overwhelmingly in favor of this solution. up to and including the FACT that neither of them knows f***-all about music. At least judging from anything they've posted so far. It may be the he/they are just holding back to keep from showing off...



----------------
Listening to:
Marsalis, Leppard, English Chamber Orchestra - Telemann Concerto for in Bb for 3 Trumpets 1st mvmt - Moderato

[DavidW]

Check the olive oil!

[The new erato]

Only in terms of form. Melody however is music's highest component, as a moment's though will confirm.

This isn't argument. That is positioning something nonevident as fact. Just as robnewman usually does.

And non-tonal frameworks aren't foreign to me, and tonality isn't  subjective.

Yes it is - to all the people through all the ages that didn't, and don't, find it selfevident. And to everybody able to find beauty, feeling and communication in nontonal music even if you aren't.

If you haven't tried or your memory's failing, next time you're by a piano play C and C# and you'll find a discordant sound, whereas C and G is different. Argue your dumb way out of that.

It wasn't to Dufay. And please leave the obnoxious argumentation.

Or rather - don't bother. I should have known better than try to enter into meaningful and civil argumentation with you. I'm a stupid f**k.

Where IS the ignore Sean button? I really need it.

[Sean]

Gurn

up to and including the FACT that neither of them knows f***-all about music. At least judging from anything they've posted so far. It may be the he/they are just holding back to keep from showing off...

Fine words for a moderator. But no, I'm not Rob N, just one of these pesky occasional guys who can actually think a bit, yes, odd and disturbing I know; don't worry though, just carry on in the flow and I'll be overwhelmed with B/S and you won't have to worry so.

I know the Triple trumpet from the Leppard as well.

[Sean]

Check the olive oil!

Eh?

[Sean]

erato

This isn't argument. That is positioning something nonevident as fact. Just as robnewman usually does.

It's self-evident.

Yes it is - to all the people through all the ages that didn't, and don't, find it selfevident. And to everybody able to find beauty, feeling and communication in nontonal music even if you aren't.

This just isn't the case. If you want me to quote others, in R.Scruton's words, 'tonality is the only music that will ever make sense to us...'

I'm a stupid f**k.

Well I don't usually bother telling people but...

[The new erato]

Your problem Sean is that you see everything - absolutely everything - as a reflection of you and your particular problems and place in the world. Which means any kind of discussion with you is useless by those able to step outside their own sphere for a moment and reflect on more general matters and principles (and I don't claim that I always am able to do that myself). It's you, you, you, something which frankly makes normal human communication useless.

[The new erato]

Well I don't usually bother telling people but...

Please do. Anybody stupid enough to think normal human interaction with you possible, deserves to be told off.

[Sean]

A few replies to that drivellous contribution come to mind but this thread is already too much of a wind up. I think I'll go on Youtube a bit.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn

Fine words for a moderator. But no, I'm not Rob N, just one of these pesky occasional guys who can actually think a bit, yes, odd and disturbing I know; don't worry though, just carry on in the flow and I'll be overwhelmed with B/S and you won't have to worry so.

I know the Triple trumpet from the Leppard as well.

I'm not worried, just exasperated. For a smart guy, you seem to say some dumb s**t. I expect more from you.

Yes, the Telemann is pretty good. Marsalis isn't a classical trumpeter by a long shot, but he can sure adapt well as needs be. Better yet is the anonymous 2nd or 3rd playing the Eb trumpet in the clarino register. That guy (or gal) can sure blow!

[DavidW]

That Marsalis recording is pretty sweet.  I bagged it in a two story FYE on clearance for $3, just a couple of weeks before I left New England for good to move to the hotter part of the country.

[Marc]

A few replies to that drivellous contribution come to mind but this thread is already too much of a wind up. I think I'll go on Youtube a bit.

Did you already check 'my' link of Bradley Lehman?

Seriously guys: me, silly old soddus, friend of biggus dickus, famous in Rome, but not in Jerusalem, am very interested in a subject like early (pre-Bach) harpsichord music.

Just think of the positive things we may discover:
Erato thinks there's early harpsichord music which is great.
Sean thinks there's early harpsichord music which is interesting.
Well, I do see some correspondences!

Let's just try to talk about this music, OK?
And start a normal kinda mature thread about it, OK?

Help this ignorant guy, pleaze!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Newman may just be Sean's sock puppet, have we considered this?  The similarities are overwhelmingly in favor of this solution.

I think it's just a coincidence. They are both embittered losers, who display the traits common to that type of individual (such as belief in conspiracy theories); but the sad fact is there are zillions of such people clogging up the Internet.

[Sean]

erato & Spitvalve

Your problem Sean is that you see everything - absolutely everything - as a reflection of you and your particular problems and place in the world. Which means any kind of discussion with you is useless by those able to step outside their own sphere for a moment and reflect on more general matters and principles (and I don't claim that I always am able to do that myself). It's you, you, you, something which frankly makes normal human communication useless.

I think it's just a coincidence. They are both embittered losers, who display the traits common to that type of individual (such as belief in conspiracy theories); but the sad fact is there are zillions of such people clogging up the Internet.

Maybe I was bit harsh about the handles you use, though I don't know why people don't prefer to use their name, or a name, on internet forums- seems very defensive to me as though you're somehow hiding.

Anyway the above comments are pause for thought for me and have been levelled at me before: I am certainly interested in communication and discussion, but I guess I'm only going to get really involved with ideas I hadn't thought of and I feel are challenging. Maybe this is too conceited and I should be more receptive to all sorts of ideas beyond this, but I don't think so- I think the rest is garbage and that the likes of you two just want to take liberal relativist stances on everything, staying on fences as much as possible.