Puccini's Tosca

Coopmv · July 12, 2009, 06:03:11 AM

Tosca, anyone? This is supposed to be one of the top recordings. I only have it on LP ...

Tsaraslondon · July 13, 2009, 01:55:21 AM

Quote from: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 06:03:11 AM
Tosca, anyone? This is supposed to be one of the top recordings. I only have it on LP ...

Since when? Most people would place Karajan's earlier recording with Price, much higher in a list of recommendations. I'd still place the old Callas/De Sabata recording at the top of any list, but if stereo is a must then the Price/Karajan will certainly do very nicely. Other recommendable versions would include Caballe/Davis and, for a modern digital alternative, Gheorghiu/Pappano.

Wendell_E · July 13, 2009, 02:54:33 AM

What Tsaraslondon said (though I haven't heard the Caballé/Davis version). I received the LPs of the DG Karajan not long after its release as a premium from our public radio station, but only listened to it once. Great cover, anyway.

Coopmv · July 13, 2009, 05:21:42 PM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 13, 2009, 01:55:21 AM
Since when? Most people would place Karajan's earlier recording with Price, much higher in a list of recommendations. I'd still place the old Callas/De Sabata recording at the top of any list, but if stereo is a must then the Price/Karajan will certainly do very nicely. Other recommendable versions would include Caballe/Davis and, for a modern digital alternative, Gheorghiu/Pappano.

When the LP-set first came out, I thought I read some raving reviews ...

Tsaraslondon · July 14, 2009, 01:04:30 AM

Quote from: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:21:42 PM
When the LP-set first came out, I thought I read some raving reviews ...

The reviews weren't bad, certainly, but I don't seem to remember then raving about the set. However, as so often, the set hasn't stood the test of time.

marvinbrown · July 20, 2009, 04:59:57 PM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 13, 2009, 01:55:21 AM
Since when? Most people would place Karajan's earlier recording with Price, much higher in a list of recommendations. I'd still place the old Callas/De Sabata recording at the top of any list, but if stereo is a must then the Price/Karajan will certainly do very nicely.

Sorry Coopmv but I am in total agreement with Tsaraslondon on this one. The Karajan/Price recording remains the top choice for me. That said I have yet to hear Callas/De Sabata

. I consider Tosca the perfect verissimo opera. The darkest (in terms of musical texture) of Puccini's operas and Karajan/Price do it justice! Oh yeah a stereo recording suits my ears quite well!

check it out, definitely worth a listen!

marvin

Coopmv · July 20, 2009, 06:54:13 PM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 14, 2009, 01:04:30 AM
The reviews weren't bad, certainly, but I don't seem to remember then raving about the set. However, as so often, the set hasn't stood the test of time.

Buddy, you and I are on different sides of the pond and I did not and still do not read music reviews published in the UK.

Tsaraslondon · July 21, 2009, 01:07:27 AM

Quote from: Coopmv on July 20, 2009, 06:54:13 PM
Buddy, you and I are on different sides of the pond and I did not and still do not read music reviews published in the UK.

Whereas I am nowhere near so partisan in my reading. I often read American publications, and one of my bibles is The Metroplitan Guide To Recorded Opera. This second Karajan recording gets a very bad review from the American critic, Conrad L. Osborne. Mind you, he's not particularly enthusiastic about Karajan I either. His comparative critique, written before the release of the Gheorghiu/Pappano recording, comes down firmly in favour (or would you prefer favor?) of Callas/De Sabata.

Tsaraslondon · July 21, 2009, 01:19:20 AM

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 20, 2009, 04:59:57 PM
Sorry Coopmv but I am in total agreement with Tsaraslondon on this one. The Karajan/Price recording remains the top choice for me. That said I have yet to hear Callas/De Sabata . I consider Tosca the perfect verissimo opera. The darkest (in terms of musical texture) of Puccini's operas and Karajan/Price do it justice! Oh yeah a stereo recording suits my ears quite well!

check it out, definitely worth a listen!

marvin

Marvin, I'm in shock. How can you not have heard Callas/De Sabata, by common and worldwide consent, one of the greatest opera recordings ever made? One of those rare occasions where everything came together to create a recording that has maintained its classic status for more than 50 years. I might not place it at the top of a list of great Callas recordings (IMO she is shown to much better advantage in the operas of the bel canto), but I would certainly rank it as one of the greatest opera recordings ever made.

DarkAngel · July 22, 2009, 11:50:46 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 21, 2009, 01:19:20 AM
Marvin, I'm in shock. How can you not have heard Callas/De Sabata, by common and worldwide consent, one of the greatest opera recordings ever made? One of those rare occasions where everything came together to create a recording that has maintained its classic status for more than 50 years. I might not place it at the top of a list of great Callas recordings (IMO she is shown to much better advantage in the operas of the bel canto), but I would certainly rank it as one of the greatest opera recordings ever made.

I also much prefer the mono Callas/EMI Tosca........I have both Price/Karajan and later Price/Mehta Tosca and although we have beautiful vocals and lovely performances the emotional intensity does not even scratch the surface of Callas, Maria literally lives and breathes the hopeless despair of Tosca and makes us hang on every line, this is a true GROTC (great recording of the century) an essential opera performance

Slezak · July 28, 2009, 06:23:30 AM

The Ricciarelli Tosca was one of von Karajan's misguided ideas toward the end of his career, placing unsuited voices in roles that they shouldn't be doing. The cover photo is perhaps the highlight of the release, but it sure isn't in the running for top recording of the work. The Callas/Di Stefano is justly famous...the second recording with Di Stefano & Price is pretty decent, but Di Stefano was getting pretty shot by this time. Taddei was always a good Scarpia.

knight66 · July 28, 2009, 10:21:05 AM

Yes, some of Karajan's later re-recordings were not successful. Trovatore with L Price was not a patch on his earlier version, ditto Rosenkavalier.

I very much enjoy his earlier Tosca, superb sound of the time, Leontine Price is excellent, but not in that detailed and penetrating way of Callas. She recorded it twice for EMI, although there are a couple of moments of extraordinary vividness in the later set, Callas was in better voice for the earlier discs and the overall performance is top notch.

The Colin Davis version with Caballe is dramatic, but it really is not her role. She could perfectly sing heavy parts, but versimo requires a different vocal quality beyond heft or richness of tone. She sounds a fish out of water.

The Pappano version is I think excellent with excellent singing and acting. I like it a lot, but put de Sabata first. No one equals the sweep of Act 2 like he did.

Mike

marvinbrown · July 28, 2009, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 21, 2009, 01:19:20 AM
Marvin, I'm in shock. How can you not have heard Callas/De Sabata, by common and worldwide consent, one of the greatest opera recordings ever made? One of those rare occasions where everything came together to create a recording that has maintained its classic status for more than 50 years. I might not place it at the top of a list of great Callas recordings (IMO she is shown to much better advantage in the operas of the bel canto), but I would certainly rank it as one of the greatest opera recordings ever made.

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 22, 2009, 11:50:46 AM
I also much prefer the mono Callas/EMI Tosca........I have both Price/Karajan and later Price/Mehta Tosca and although we have beautiful vocals and lovely performances the emotional intensity does not even scratch the surface of Callas, Maria literally lives and breathes the hopeless despair of Tosca and makes us hang on every line, this is a true GROTC (great recording of the century) an essential opera performance

Quote from: Slezak on July 28, 2009, 06:23:30 AM
The Ricciarelli Tosca was one of von Karajan's misguided ideas toward the end of his career, placing unsuited voices in roles that they shouldn't be doing. The cover photo is perhaps the highlight of the release, but it sure isn't in the running for top recording of the work. The Callas/Di Stefano is justly famous...the second recording with Di Stefano & Price is pretty decent, but Di Stefano was getting pretty shot by this time. Taddei was always a good Scarpia.

Alright alright I get it..... enough already!!!! I need to get my hands on that Callas/Di Stefano recording even if it kills me. Is everybody happy now!!!! I don't know how a great recording like that had slipped my radar.........

marvin

Tsaraslondon · July 29, 2009, 12:42:00 AM

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 28, 2009, 11:01:20 AM
Alright alright I get it..... enough already!!!! I need to get my hands on that Callas/Di Stefano recording even if it kills me. Is everybody happy now!!!! I don't know how a great recording like that had slipped my radar.........

marvin

At least these days, it won't cost you much, Marvin. It's now available on Naxos and on EMI's budget label, though the mid price EMI Great Recordings of the Century version probably has the best transfer.

Siedler · July 29, 2009, 04:23:22 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 29, 2009, 12:42:00 AM
At least these days, it won't cost you much, Marvin. It's now available on Naxos and on EMI's budget label, though the mid price EMI Great Recordings of the Century version probably has the best transfer.

And you can (sample) it free on Spotify as many recordings of EMI are avalaibe there.

zamyrabyrd · July 29, 2009, 05:03:26 AM

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 20, 2009, 04:59:57 PM

Funny the guy doesn't look much like Di Stefano...

Callas/Pretre has been my mainstay and I never had the urge to go out and buy another recording.
Maybe it's time for a new one...

ZB

marvinbrown · July 29, 2009, 05:21:57 AM

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 29, 2009, 05:03:26 AM
Funny the guy doesn't look much like Di Stefano...

ZB

I believe that's Karajan in the photo....

marvin

zamyrabyrd · July 29, 2009, 06:24:41 AM

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 29, 2009, 05:21:57 AM
I believe that's Karajan in the photo....

So why isn't he conducting?

Tsaraslondon · July 29, 2009, 10:07:40 AM

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 29, 2009, 05:03:26 AM
Funny the guy doesn't look much like Di Stefano...

Callas/Pretre has been my mainstay and I never had the urge to go out and buy another recording.
Maybe it's time for a new one...

ZB

I urge you to try the earlier of the Callas sets, ZB. By the time she recorded it with Pretre, the voice was pretty much in tatters. Though the characterisation is, if anything, even more detailed, the top Cs all tend to emerge as shrieks. In 1953, when she recorded the role under De Sabata, she is in sovereign voice. So too is Gobbi, whose voice was a little threadbare by 1965. Bergonzi is good on the Pretre version, but Di Stefano is at his not inconsiderable best on the 1953 version, in better voice than on the Karajan recording. To cap it all, De Sabata's conducting is so inevitably right in every bar. Too bad that he was only occasionally coaxed into the recording studio. No doubt if he'd recorded more, his name would have been as revered as Toscanini's.

marvinbrown · July 29, 2009, 01:18:49 PM

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 29, 2009, 06:24:41 AM
So why isn't he conducting?

Perhaps he is preparing her for the role of Tosca- the dramatic power of that opera works well with that photo.....Oh God how I love Tosca, such a musically dark opera 0:)!!

I just ordered the Callas/Di Stafano recording

and can't wait to hear it.

marvin