Reiner's Mahler 4 - XRCD vs. Hybrid

[E d o]

I really need to pick this up but can't quite decide which to order. I really love the JVC XRCD's that I own. They are expensive but worth it in my opinion. But then the RCA hybrids are well regarded too. I don't have a SACD player so that is of no concern, just want the best standard CD sound. Has anyone heard / have both?

As a side note, I notice Reiner's Das Leid Von Der Erde got the SACD treatment and is available next month.

[Bunny]

I have both the XRCD and RCA Living Stereo SACD/Hybrid release of Reiner's Mahler 4th, and I'm fussy about sound.  My advice is to get the cheaper one - whichever it is!  I know it's going to come as a surprise, but the redbook layer on the SACD is almost indistinguishable from the XRCD.  This is one place where it's not really cost effective to get the "better" cd.  Moreover, the SACD layer is better than the XRCD so if you ever do get an SACD player, you will be much happier with the 3 channel SACD.

I just checked at Amazon and the XRCD is selling for about $30 and the SACD is selling for under $9.00 from the partners.  That's about $20 more for a fancier package.  You won't hear the difference in sound quality unless your system is very high end.

[E d o]

Thanks Bunny. My system is petty high end though. Mid level Naim Audio from England. Highly recommend.

[Bunny]

Thanks Bunny. My system is petty high end though. Mid level Naim Audio from England. Highly recommend.

So is mine, and I have trouble telling the difference between the XRCD and the redbook layer.  The the SACD layer is discernable more easily as better than the XRCD and Redbook layer.  I'm not going to say anything about the difference between the non SACD Living Stereo edition and the XRCD because I understand that the redbook layer on the SACD is actually slightly better than the non SACD issue.  I don't know if we could hear it.  I found the same thing was true of the XRCD and SACD/Hybrid of the Van Cliburn Tchaikowsky piano concerto.

[rubio]

Thanks Bunny. My system is petty high end though. Mid level Naim Audio from England. Highly recommend.

Nice, I've got Naim CDS3-HiLine-XPS2-NAC282-Hicap.2-NAPSC-NAP250.2-Naim Fraim. Love it. 

[E d o]

Nice system you've got there Rubio. My next Amp will be a 250.2, moving up from a 180.

[Iago]

XRCDs are an expensive joke. They don't have the audible "clout" they're supposed to have. Hybrids especially those of Telarc or RCA are superior by a VERY WIDE margin.

[Bunny]

XRCDs are an expensive joke. They don't have the audible "clout" they're supposed to have. Hybrids especially those of Telarc or RCA are superior by a VERY WIDE margin.

I tried to understand exactly what was happening with the XRCDs (tough to do as the booklets are only in Japanese), but I believe the process is only used for the remastering of analog tapes.  I can't see how it's superior to HDCD, and clearly it's not as good as the dsd process which is very close to analog sound recording, but there is a difference when I listen to older digital masterings of analog materials and compare them with later XRCD mastering.  The Joe Pass/Ella Fitzgerald album, "Take Love Easy" comes to mind.  The first cd I got of that sounded awful, but the XRCD was much closer to the sound of the vinyl.  I haven't seen that released as an SACD, but if it were, I would probably pick it up if only to compare it to the XRCD.  I think if there has been dsd recording, XRCD falls by the wayside, which is why I wouldn't spend the money on the Reiner as long as the SACD/HYbrid is available.  Also, having both, I can attest that the redbook layer on the hybrid  is virtually indistinguishable from the XRCD.  In fact, they may well have used the XRCD mastering for the redbook layer on the SACD Living Stereo recording.

[E d o]

XRCDs are an expensive joke. They don't have the audible "clout" they're supposed to have. Hybrids especially those of Telarc or RCA are superior by a VERY WIDE margin.

Iago, have you actually compared an XRCD to it's standard issue CD counterpart or are you just repeating what you've read somewhere? All the JVC discs that I've compared to the bog standard version were a noticeable improvement. While Telarc has some fine recordings the comparison is a bit apples and oranges. The point here is about remastering older analog tapes optimally and not about outstanding new digital recordings.

[Bunny]

Iago, have you actually compared an XRCD to it's standard issue CD counterpart or are you just repeating what you've read somewhere? All the JVC discs that I've compared to the bog standard version were a noticeable improvement. While Telarc has some fine recordings the comparison is a bit apples and oranges. The point here is about remastering older analog tapes optimally and not about outstanding new digital recordings.

I have compared them, on a large speaker system (Canton Vento reference speakers), and I'll tell you again, if you have the hybrid, the redbook layer is virtually indistinguishable from the XRCD and the SACD layer is far superior.  The difference in sound qiuality for this particular recording doesn't justify the difference in price.  Moreover, if you are going to rip it for ipod then there's really no point in even getting the hybrid edition.  Any differences in sound quality will be lost on the ipod even if you rip in Apple lossless and use an ipod amp and top grade headphones.  There are diminishing returns when it comes to audio quality, and XRCD isn't discernably better than HD cd which is what's currently used for hybrid stereo layer (from the dsd mastering).  It's your money, but I would rather save the $20.00 to spend on another recording. 

[Iago]

Iago, have you actually compared an XRCD to it's standard issue CD counterpart or are you just repeating what you've read somewhere?

I am "my own man". I pay very little attention to record reviews and even less attention to the recommendations on this forum. I don't "buy" into hype and I don't actually purchase an item (neither equipment nor recordings) without having heard them, or in some way auditioning them first. In short, I trust ONLY myself in evaluating anything electronic or recorded. I have EXCELLENT playback equipment, including a new cd player that is the best that my budget would allow me to buy. And it has revealed to me just how marvelous ordinary redbook cds can sound when played on very fine equipment. Hence, I find absolutely nothing "extra" revealed on an XRCD, and thus feel that they are a TOTAL waste of money.

[Steve]

I pay very little attention to record reviews and even less attention to the recommendations on this forum. 

You don't trust the advice and recommendations of your fellow GMGrs?

[Iago]

You don't trust the advice and recommendations of your fellow GMGrs?

Nope, especially yours.
You still have not clarified your last comment to me on the "preferred format" thread.  Thus, any respect I may have had either for you or your opinions has disappeared.

[E d o]

Bunny, rest assured you have sold me on the hybrid.

[Bunny]

Bunny, rest assured you have sold me on the hybrid.

You will be soon rewarded by more music.