20th century impressionism

[Guido]

One of the best British composers for voice, no less

His Dies Natalis, Intimations of Immortality, In Terra Pax, Magnificat and smaller songs are of a quality that almost no other British composer of the 20th century has surpassed. His two concerti (clarinet, cello) are also rather wonderful, although not particularly impressionist...

Glad to hear tat someone else thinks as highly of him as I do. I would by no means call him an impressionist, though around here people seem to have very wide definitions of what one of those is!

[Homo Aestheticus]

Ten Thumbs,

Think how different it would be if Debussy had lived longer and composed whole-tone serial music!

Whole-tone serial music ?   

Now that you are on the topic, I'm curious:

Do you consider Debussy's 'Pelléas et Melisande', begun in the early 1890's and finished in 1902, the firstborn of a new century or the final exquisite rendering of the Wagnerian age ? 

And why ?

[Gurn Blanston]

Ten Thumbs,

Whole-tone serial music ?   

Now that you are on the topic, I'm curious:

Do you consider Debussy's 'Pelléas et Melisande', begun in the early 1890's and finished in 1902, the firstborn of a new century or the final exquisite rendering of the Wagnerian age ? 

And why ?

Actually, he isn't on the topic. Just because someone is forced to mention Debussy, doesn't mean that the topic is suddenly changed to P & M. I will delete this post if you continue in this vein.



----------------
Listening to:
Nathan Milstein & Pittsburgh SO / Fistoulari - Brahms Violin Concerto in D Op. 77  I. Allegro non troppo

[schweitzeralan]

Whilst there may have been a folklorist movement, I don't think that the term defines the style of that era any better than other attempts. What exactly do you think impressionism means? Does anyone know?

It's been a long time since I've read Christopher Palmer's book on musical impressionism. Unfortunately I don't recall detaills, but if there is one conclusive study on the subject, that's the book to consult.  For me, personally, the term has little, if anything to do with the impressionistic paintings that were later admired and studied within the genre and who were either contemporaries or the one generation previous of Debussy. For me personally, impressionism in music apparently did advance with the works of Debussy and Ravel.  Debussy hated the term and maintained that he was a realist and what paintings he did admire were those of Turner; he was also well familiar and was acquainted with several literary figures of his day who were symbolists.  The aesthetic, to be sure, is not limited to Debussy, although he did have his musical descendants.  Many composers since Debussy have composed and have develped other classifications which defined much of 20th century music: neo-classicism, minimalism, neo-primitivism, serial, et. al. Some impressionist harmonies lurk in many composers who lived and composed well after Debussy's singular achievements. What impressionist sounds mean to me, and I am no expert but have been listening for years, for decades.  Impressionism for me means: exotic sonorities, parallel chords, much modulation, color in harmony (Raitio and Scriabin are reminders of this tendency), rich orchestral or keyboard texture, nuance; and, very important in some, but not all iin terms of mpressionistic style, is the suggestion ,musically, of various subtle nuances, or that element, or aesthetic of the sensuous.  I simply call it sensuosity. Again Scriabin and the music of Arnold Bax and John Ireland come to mind. The one great writer who had many sensuous, fleeting involuntary memorial nuances, sense of distance (Palmer brings this out), shadowy "sense impressions," (like Florent Schmitt's pianistic work 'Ombres') was none other than Marcel Proust. There is much to this movement the influences of which are suggested in composers long after Debussy, Ravel, or Schmitt.

[schweitzeralan]

It's been a long time since I've read Christopher Palmer's book on musical impressionism. Unfortunately I don't recall detaills, but if there is one conclusive study on the subject, that's the book to consult.  For me, personally, the term has little, if anything to do with the impressionistic paintings that were later admired and studied within the genre and who were either contemporaries or the one generation previous of Debussy. For me personally, impressionism in music apparently did advance with the works of Debussy and Ravel.  Debussy hated the term and maintained that he was a realist and what paintings he did admire were those of Turner; he was also well familiar and was acquainted with several literary figures of his day who were symbolists.  The aesthetic, to be sure, is not limited to Debussy, although he did have his musical descendants.  Many composers since Debussy have composed and have develped other classifications which defined much of 20th century music: neo-classicism, minimalism, neo-primitivism, serial, et. al. Some impressionist harmonies lurk in many composers who lived and composed well after Debussy's singular achievements. What impressionist sounds mean to me, and I am no expert but have been listening for years, for decades.  Impressionism for me means: exotic sonorities, parallel chords, much modulation, color in harmony (Raitio and Scriabin are reminders of this tendency), rich orchestral or keyboard texture, nuance; and, very important in some, but not all iin terms of mpressionistic style, is the suggestion ,musically, of various subtle nuances, or that element, or aesthetic of the sensuous.  I simply call it sensuosity. Again Scriabin and the music of Arnold Bax and John Ireland come to mind. The one great writer who had many sensuous, fleeting involuntary memorial nuances, sense of distance (Palmer brings this out), shadowy "sense impressions," (like Florent Schmitt's pianistic work 'Ombres') was none other than Marcel Proust. There is much to this movement the influences of which are suggested in composers long after Debussy, Ravel, or Schmitt.

I realize this is an old thread. Several significant composers were identfied with the aesthetic discssed. I only wanted to add one more piece, one that I have learned st recentl thanks to the sundry postings in this forum. It's a brief but beautiful orchestral piece called "Sirens," written by Gliere way back during "La Belle Epoque," the decade of impressionistic sonorities. "Sirens" is written in the musical harmnies and modes simiar to his magnificent "Ilya Muromets."