First recordings for works giving a stronger experience- cf the thud of box sets

[Sean]

The works on individual LPs I first had, and to a slightly lesser extent individual CDs, made a great impression as a result of the fact they were individually presented to return to specifically and think about more. With box sets and complete editions by contrast it's harder for works to stick in the mind with the same kind of individuality.

I don't think there's any problem to the familiarization process by getting into long sets of music but there's an element missing with the present blizzard of availabiliy. The situation is also worse for music after about 1800, when the concept of individually conceived works became more developed, in place of only overall explorations of an expressive idiom and technical and inventive mastery, but the point holds for baroque and earlier music too.

I'm sure many have the same disconcerting experience, as indeed with many aspects of the everything-goes postmodern environment.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The works on individual LPs I first had, and to a slightly lesser extent individual CDs, made a great impression as a result of the fact they were individually presented to return to specifically and think about more.

I've noticed that too, and I haven't succumbed to the box set mania that some people have.

Getting to know each Mahler or Beethoven symphony over a long period of time, with the regular visits to the music store taking on something of the atmosphere of a ritual, seems to me vastly preferable to having a mega-CD box dumped on my doorstep by the local postman. Even if the box is a lot cheaper.

In the rare cases I've bought box sets, it's been in the spirit of "topping up" - i.e. getting to know the works in the set I hadn't already heard. I've never bought a box of which I had never heard any of the contents before.

[Herman]

The works on individual LPs I first had, and to a slightly lesser extent individual CDs, made a great impression as a result of the fact they were individually presented to return to specifically and think about more. With box sets and complete editions by contrast it's harder for works to stick in the mind with the same kind of individuality.

absolutely. Especially as the boxes keep getting bigger. It's virtually impossible to familiarize one with that many works in decent time.

I'm sure many have the same disconcerting experience, as indeed with many aspects of the everything-goes postmodern environment.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Sean]

Spitvalve, yes I feel the same way. And certainly with the most important repertory you don't want to treat it as a cycle of similar works for similar treatment. Also I've just ordered a complete Bach for the swatting down reasons you mention.

[DavidW]

Spitvalve, yes I feel the same way. And certainly with the most important repertory you don't want to treat it as a cycle of similar works for similar treatment. Also I've just ordered a complete Bach for the swatting down reasons you mention.

That's exactly the kind of thing that illustrates your point, the brilliant set is now only $80, the cost of collecting the works individually would be easily 20 x as much.  Of course it's our own failing to feel like we have to rush through every cd like a small asian kid goes through hot dogs at a hot dog eating contest.  We can buy a box set, but then spend as much time as we want on each cd, without having to feel rushed, that's the nice thing about owning cds.

For example when I bought the Hagen Quartet cycle of Mozart SQs, one cd I listened to 15-20 times over (I lost count), several others 2-3 times over, and then the early SQs just once through.

I think that we're tempted to rush through without contemplation because novelty is a quick fix for boredom.

[Sean]

David, yes I can see you understand,

That's exactly the kind of thing that illustrates your point, the brilliant set is now only $80, the cost of collecting the works individually would be easily 20 x as much.  Of course it's our own failing to feel like we have to rush through every cd like a small asian kid goes through hot dogs at a hot dog eating contest.  We can buy a box set, but then spend as much time as we want on each cd, without having to feel rushed, that's the nice thing about owning cds.

For example when I bought the Hagen Quartet cycle of Mozart SQs, one cd I listened to 15-20 times over (I lost count), several others 2-3 times over, and then the early SQs just once through.

It's a problem today for the young, coming to music with the flood of possibilities when they just need to get to know a more limited range ie of the greatest music- but don't know what that is.

I think that we're tempted to rush through without contemplation because novelty is a quick fix for boredom.

Sure, good point.

[DavidW]

It's a problem today for the young, coming to music with the flood of possibilities when they just need to get to know a more limited range ie of the greatest music- but don't know what that is.

You're right, and I had not really thought about it since even I (one of the younger members of this forum) grew up on brick and mortar stores for music purchases.  We should put in an effort to guide young posters as they appear in this forum so they don't end up manically listening to a large amount of music without time to relax and cherish what they've heard.

[karlhenning]

I'm sure many have the same disconcerting experience, as indeed with many aspects of the everything-goes postmodern environment.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Nor I.

[secondwind]

The works on individual LPs I first had, and to a slightly lesser extent individual CDs, made a great impression as a result of the fact they were individually presented to return to specifically and think about more.

I think one could say the same about a first kiss or a first love--it made a tremendous impression because of the intensity and unity of focus.  Sometimes less is more. 0:)

[DavidW]

Nor I.

Oh you haven't gone postmodern in your work place yet?  Well we'll send over an English professor ASAP to deconstruct you.

[karlhenning]

It's a problem today for the young, coming to music with the flood of possibilities when they just need to get to know a more limited range ie of the greatest music- but don't know what that is.

There's a good point behind this, but there are problems even in your statement of the problem.  The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  And it should be a good, firm step . . . not two dozen desultory sort-of-steps.

But I believe that the greatest music is a broader category than you are prepared to accept, Sean.  And there are problems nascent in, i.e., presenting as the entrèes upon the greatest music Bach, Mozart & Beethoven, if the agent imposes even an implicit prejudice that, well, this is The Greatest:  it's all downhill from here.

Oh you haven't gone postmodern in your work place yet?  Well we'll send over an English professor ASAP to deconstruct you.

Nnnoooooo!!!!   

[DavidW]

so they don't end up manically listening to a large amount of music without time to relax and cherish what they've heard.

An example of this can be found on the many recent SQ threads fyi.

[Herman]

An example of this can be found on the many recent SQ threads fyi.

I knew it

[Sean]

secondwind, yes that's one explanation, simply the newness of it. I can think of my first Haydn quartets, first renaissance music, first scarlatti and so on that made an impression later of those works didn't, but I still think there's an unfortunate effect where you forget the particular individual character of works because you're straight onto the next one in box sets etc. It's not that you haven't internalized the music but whereas before Beethoven's Piano sonata No.11 I relished from a single Ashkenazy LP, some of the others I got to know from box sets I don't recall the same- until I listen again...

Karl, sure, no I didn't mean to get into value-distribution arguments across the repertory- I do have views on that but for these purposes we can just find equivalent status artworks we all agree on, yet when individually presented do stick in the mind more...

[The new erato]

The works on individual LPs I first had, and to a slightly lesser extent individual CDs, made a great impression as a result of the fact they were individually presented to return to specifically and think about more. With box sets and complete editions by contrast it's harder for works to stick in the mind with the same kind of individuality.

I do agree, and try hard to avoid large sets that may be satisfying as a collecting exercise but seldom give musical plesuare in accord with the number of CDs they contain, however strong the performances may be, from exactly the reasons you cite. And I really hate having unplayed CDs around for longer amounts of time, they turn into bad conscience very quickly.

A 50 CD set where you only play a couple of CDs turn into a quite high price pr CD in musical terms, even though the price pr CD are low as seen from a collecting viewpoint.

Gluttony is seldom compatible with gourmetry. I try to remind myself that I collect music, not CDs, and that I think there is a difference. Occasionally I don't succeed , however. 

[Sean]

Good stuff erato.

The only box sets for newer collectors I could imagine would be of different classic performances, on their differnent labels, differently presented- impossible I guess.