The GMG SF/Fantasy/Horror Club

[eyeresist]

Well, I have to start with Plan 9! Yes, gotta love it,... and I like to watch 'Ed Wood' (Johnny Depp) sometimes to for the nostalgia.

I think Ed Wood is probably Tim Burton's best film.

I have this set:
[asin]B0002W4TNA[/asin]

It includes a very interesting feature-length documentary, with audio commentary and extras.

Glen or Glenda is in cinematic terms probably Wood's greatest achievement. It's a self-revealing personal statement, amazing given its historical context, with a style combining documentary and acid trip.

Bride of the Monster is almost a good film! (Lugosi is great in it.)

I must confess I still haven't seen Jail Bait (or if I have I've forgotten it).

[jwinter]

 Quote from: Bogey on July 26, 2012, 01:08:31 PM

Anyone here enjoy the Hammer films...I never cared for them.  Always stayed with the Universal efforts.

 
I greatly enjoy the Hammers with Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee; the rest of them, not so much.  Any with the 2 of them together are definite faves, even the weird 1970's ones where Dracula is preying on a bunch of hippies in swinging London 

Favorites for me are probably The Horror of Dracula, The Mummy, The Hound of the Baskervilles, and the first several Cushing Frankensteins.

[jwinter]

 Quote from: snyprrr on Today at 12:14:19 AM

...Then,

Zontar, the Thing from Venus, beautiful John Agar. Demon Seed!! Robot Monster! The Creeping Terror (now THAT one's bad,... or good,... or...)...

 
I love The Creeping Terror!  The tennis shoes poking out under the creature as it walks around are the best!   

[snyprrr]

Quote from: snyprrr on Today at 12:14:19 AM

...Then,

Zontar, the Thing from Venus, beautiful John Agar. Demon Seed!! Robot Monster! The Creeping Terror (now THAT one's bad,... or good,... or...)...

 
I love The Creeping Terror!  The tennis shoes poking out under the creature as it walks around are the best!   

Ah, good friend,... and your not too far away!

Also Curse of Bigfoot. Ahhh,... Blood Freak!, with the turkey head!!


Some faves include The Fury, The Howling, and Incubus (w/Cassavettes)

ooo,... The Devil's Rain, Brotherhood of Satan

[Bogey]

I think Ed Wood is probably Tim Burton's best film.

I think know Ed Wood is probably Tim Burton's best film.

[Fëanor]

The problem with that one is the way Dick presents the Japanese occupation [in The Man in the High Castle] of the US as basically benign (the good guys to the Nazi bad guys), indicating he was ignorant of how they behaved in other places they occupied. Invalidates the whole thing for me.

I agree that the portrayal of the Japanese is benign relative to the Germans. However I wouldn't go so far as to say that the above invalidated the book for me; it was done for dramatic contrast I'd guess. But the other thing to remember is that is was de rigueur in those day (1962) to characterize the Nazis as uniquely evil in the history. Today we are better able to acknowledge that the Nazis' inherent evil was no worse than that of a lot of others before and since, (viz. after Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sadam's Iraq, etc.), and their only distinction was the use of industrial methods.

If there was anything that left me bemused about the book, it was the constant reference to "the Oracle", the I Ching, for some obscure literary purpose that eludes me. Do we know if Dick was fascinated with I Ching or if it was trendy in the early '60s?

Personally I wasn't very impressed by the writing. I don' think the plot threads were resolved in a satisfying way.

As for the Nazi, Martin Borman's succession to Reich Chancellor/President following the death of Hitler after a successful prosecution of the War, seems highly unlikely.  Personally, in that event I think Herman Goering would have succeeded in accordance with Hitler's original will.  This might have been for no better reason than that the Wehrmacht would have supported Goering rather than the Party (Borman), or the SS (Himmler/Heydrich). Despite Borman's insidious power in Hitler's court, IMO, Hitler would never have nominated him -- indeed in the actual event it was not Borman but Goebbels (as Chancellor) and Donitz (as President).

[jwinter]

If there was anything that left me bemused about the book, it was the constant reference to "the Oracle", the I Ching, for some obscure literary purpose that eludes me. Do we know if Dick was fascinated with I Ching or if it was trendy in the early '60s?

I recently read that as well.  Personally I took all the I Ching references as trying to set up a correlation between (Japan & China) and (Ancient Rome & Greece) -- ie that the Japanese, having conquered China, were absorbing the parts of their culture that they admired, just as Rome did with Greece, and that the pattern would continue with Japan and the USA -- hence the Japanese fascination with American pop culture.  The pattern repeats itself, and is in direct opposition to the German "Aryan" principle of wiping everyone out and replacing them with Nordic stock.  I agree that this is taking too charitable a view towards Imperial Japan, given the historical record, but I can follow along for the purposes of the novel.

Overall I thought it was a good book, though I agree that I don't like Dick for the quality of his writing, meaning either  the plots or the artistic quality of the prose as such, but rather for the philosophical (for lack of a better term) concepts that he likes to kick around (questions of identity, consciousness, etc.).

[eyeresist]

If there was anything that left me bemused about the book, it was the constant reference to "the Oracle", the I Ching, for some obscure literary purpose that eludes me. Do we know if Dick was fascinated with I Ching or if it was trendy in the early '60s?

Personally I wasn't very impressed by the writing. I don' think the plot threads were resolved in a satisfying way.

Dick was always mystically-minded, and I think he was indeed into the I Ching at the time (it was in the air on the West Coast - see also John Cage). He used the I Ching as part of the plotting process. As far as that goes, he didn't necessarily believe this would imbue the book with a revelatory quality - in my own writing experience I've found that creating plot is a bit of a chore, so any guidance is a relief. I have a novel a way down the pipeline which I plotted partly using the Tarot.

I agree about the writing quality - his prose is functional, and his characters are often two-dimensional. Plotwise, High Castle is more coherent that usual - his novels often give the impression of being wildly improvised. His best books are usually interesting in a pathological sense, and for the unique "trip" they can provide - Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, Do Androids Dream, Ubik. I haven't read his non-genre stuff, but A Scanner Darkly is much more grounded and character-based than most of what I've read. Radio Free Albemuth combines the extremes somewhat. I recommend all these titles.

[Fëanor]

...
Overall I thought it was a good book, though I agree that I don't like Dick for the quality of his writing, meaning either  the plots or the artistic quality of the prose as such, but rather for the philosophical (for lack of a better term) concepts that he likes to kick around (questions of identity, consciousness, etc.).

...
I agree about the writing quality - his prose is functional, and his characters are often two-dimensional. Plotwise, High Castle is more coherent that usual - his novels often give the impression of being wildly improvised. His best books are usually interesting in a pathological sense, and for the unique "trip" they can provide - Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, Do Androids Dream, Ubik. I haven't read his non-genre stuff, but A Scanner Darkly is much more grounded and character-based than most of what I've read. Radio Free Albemuth combines the extremes somewhat. I recommend all these titles.

I intend to try another Dick novel, probably Ubik. But I agree with the concept that he was mainly a Sci-Fi concept man; for this he is justifiably famous.

Not many famous Sci-Fi writers are also great writers in the general sense. Gene Wolfe comes to mind as a possible exception.

[eyeresist]

I intend to try another Dick novel, probably Ubik. But I agree with the concept that he was mainly a Sci-Fi concept man; for this he is justifiably famous.

That's not what I was saying at all! In terms of "pure" science fiction, Dick was an outlier, not hugely interested in speculation based on extrapolation via scientific principles, which is what sf is IMO. Consciously, Dick's main concern was philosophical, specifically epistemology, i.e. the question of how we can know what is real, and the validity of the realities of individuals. On a deeper level, he was expressing the terror of being unable to tell what is real, and paranoia about people imposing their realities onto others.

[Fëanor]

That's not what I was saying at all! In terms of "pure" science fiction, Dick was an outlier, not hugely interested in speculation based on extrapolation via scientific principles, which is what sf is IMO. Consciously, Dick's main concern was philosophical, specifically epistemology, i.e. the question of how we can know what is real, and the validity of the realities of individuals. On a deeper level, he was expressing the terror of being unable to tell what is real, and paranoia about people imposing their realities onto others.

OK, well, a concept is a concept whether science or philosophy.  I can't disagree with a word your saying, though I'm sure I haven't read as much Dick as you have.

When I look at what goes on in this world, I'd have to say most people really need to worry about their understanding of reality.

[Ataraxia]

If you enjoy literary horror stories and you own a Kindle, you need this daily deal:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006NZAR7W/ref=amb_link_364490602_3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JQ44FEBX2CFTD1N044Z&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=1387752142&pf_rd_i=1000677541

[Ataraxia]

Now it's $7.19. Still worth the price.

[eyeresist]

As reported in Ansible:

Peter Jackson's and Warner Bros' plan to expand the Hobbit project from two films to three – using spare Lord of the Rings material since 'There's so much good stuff in the appendices that we haven't been able to squeeze into these movies' (Telegraph, 26 July) – was thoughtfully described by The Independent's John Walsh as 'stretching an ant's arse over a rain barrel.' (Independent, 26 July)

[Bogey]

Greg and I were chatting about Universal Horror pics on the avtar thread and thought I would bring the discussion oner here:

I love the old Aurora kit art.  The art was always better than the kit.  I have a reissue....part of my collection here:



Older photo.  It has expanded since to three walls+ worth, but you get the idea.

That's freakin awesome!
Which is your favorite of the Universal monster films?

I think the best done, and I mean this sincerely, was Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein.  As a kid, Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman.  I woke up one morning at about 2 AM when I was about 10 years old, turned on the tv, and there before me was Frankie (the dreadful Bela version) beating on the Wolfie....then the whole castle blew up and all were swept away!  I was awake for the day!  I was hooked for life!    Now....probably the first Mummy (1932) with Karloff.  Loved him in this role, even thogh the bandages came off early.

So, what is your favorite Universal Horror/Sci-Fi film?  Here is a list compiled by Mike Scott, a cool cat that knows his monster films:

Not chronological, but maybe something you can work from?


SILENTS:
The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1923)
The Phantom of the Opera (1925)
The Cat and the Canary (1927)
The Man Who Laughs (1928)


DRACULA:
Dracula (1931)
Drácula (193I Spanish)
Dracula's Daughter (1936)
Son of Dracula (1943)
House of Frankenstein (1944)
House of Dracula (1945)


FRANKENSTEIN:
Frankenstein (1931)
Bride of Frankenstein (1935)
Son of Frankenstein (1939)
The Ghost of Frankenstein (1942)
Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man (1943)
House of Frankenstein (1944)
House of Dracula (1945)


THE MUMMY:
The Mummy (1932)
The Mummy's Hand (1940)
The Mummy's Tomb (1942)
The Mummy's Ghost (1944)
The Mummy's Curse (1944)


THE INVISIBLE MAN:
The Invisible Man (1933)
The Invisible Man Returns (1940)
The Invisible Woman (1940)
Invisible Agent (1942)
The Invisible Man's Revenge (1944)


THE WOLF MAN (and other Werewolves):
Werewolf of London (1935)
The Wolf Man (1941)
Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man (1943)
House of Frankenstein (1944)
House of Dracula (1945)
She-Wolf of London (1946)


PAULA THE APE WOMAN:
Captive Wild Woman (1943)
Jungle Woman (1944)
The Jungle Captive (1945)


KARLOFF AND LUGOSI:
The Old Dark House (1932)
Murders in the Rue Morgue (1932)
The Black Cat (1934)
The Raven (1935)
The Invisible Ray (1936)
Night Key (1937)
Tower of London (1939)
Black Friday (1940)
The Black Cat (1941)
The Climax (1944)


HORROR/MYSTERY/THRILLER:
The Cat Creeps (1930 lost film)
Secret of the Blue Room (1933)
Mystery of Edwin Drood (1935)
Life Returns (1935)
The House of the Seven Gables (1940)
Horror Island (1941)
Man Made Monster (1941)
The Mad Doctor of Market Street (1942)
Night Monster (1942)
The Strange Case of Doctor Rx (1942)
The Mad Ghoul (1943)
Phantom of the Opera (1943)
The Cat Creeps (1946)


INNER SANCTUM MYSTERIES:
Calling Dr. Death (1943)
Weird Woman (1944)
Dead Man's Eyes (1944)
The Frozen Ghost (1945)
Strange Confession (1945)
Pillow of Death (1945)


RONDO HATTON:
The Pearl of Death (1944)
The Jungle Captive (1945)
The Spider Woman Strikes Back (1946)
House of Horrors (1946)
The Brute Man (1946)


A&C MEET THE MONSTERS:
Bud Abbott Lou Costello Meet Frankenstein (1948)
Abbott and Costello Meet the Killer, Boris Karloff (1949)
Abbott and Costello Meet the Invisible Man (1951)
Abbott and Costello Meet Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1953)
Abbott and Costello Meet the Mummy (1955)


SHERLOCK HOLMES:
Sherlock Holmes and the Voice of Terror (1942)
Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon (1943)
Sherlock Holmes in Washington (1943)
Sherlock Holmes Faces Death (1943)
The Spider Woman (1944)
The Scarlet Claw (1944)
The Pearl of Death (1944)
The House of Fear (1945)
The Woman in Green (1945)
Pursuit to Algiers (1945)
Terror by Night (1946)
Dressed to Kill (1946)


SERIALS:
The Vanishing Shadow (1934)
Flash Gordon (1936)
Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars (1938)
The Phantom Creeps (1939)
Buck Rogers (1939)
Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe (1940)


1950S SCI-FI / HORROR:
The Strange Door (1951)
The Black Castle (1952)
Abbott and Costello Go to Mars (1953)
It Came from Outer Space (1953)
Creature from the Black Lagoon (1954)
Cult of the Cobra (1955)
Revenge of the Creature (1955)
Tarantula (1955)
This Island Earth (1955)
The Creature Walks Among Us (1956)
The Mole People (1956)
The Deadly Mantis (1957)
The Incredible Shrinking Man (1957)
The Land Unknown (1957)
Man of a Thousand Faces (1957 Chaney Sr. biopic)
The Monolith Monsters (1957)
Monster on the Campus (1958)
The Thing That Couldn't Die (1958)
Curse of the Undead (1959)
The Leech Woman (1960)

[jwinter]

Well, I'm not sure about including the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes movies on the list.  Some of them are bad, but not scary bad... 

My favorite is probably still the original Dracula with Lugosi.  It's very creepy, heightened by the fact that the director came from doing silent films, and thus had no issues with leaving significant stretches of the film without sound -- no music, no dialogue, nothing but your imagination to keep you company, like sitting alone at night in a dark strange house.  I can't stand the attempts on DVD to add new music to it -- ruins the whole effect IMO.

[Bogey]

Just took in an afternoon matinee with the Mummy's Tomb from '42.  Somehow they even managed to put together an angry torch carrying mob in this one set in Mapleton, USA....but what would a Universal horror movie be without one?



I believe Chaney does better when given a non-talking part.

[snyprrr]

Just took in an afternoon matinee with the Mummy's Tomb from '42.  Somehow they even managed to put together an angry torch carrying mob in this one set in Mapleton, USA....but what would a Universal horror movie be without one?



I believe Chaney does better when given a non-talking part.

I always loved how the 'mummy' movies in particular were so... mm... anonymous that I could never tell if I'd seen 'Tomb', or 'Curse', or,... and the one you mentioned, which takes place in the US, oh! that stuff is intravenous!


I like 'The Black Cat',... very 'modern'.

[Bogey]

I always loved how the 'mummy' movies in particular were so... mm... anonymous that I could never tell if I'd seen 'Tomb', or 'Curse', or,... and the one you mentioned, which takes place in the US, oh! that stuff is intravenous!

Yes, yes, yes!  I refer to it as their "charm".

I like 'The Black Cat',... very 'modern'.

Been a while....I will have to watch it again.

[Hollywood]

I love your current avatar Bogey. Lugosi's 1931 Dracula has been one of my all time favorite films. I have seen this film about 50 times and I have it now on dvd so I can watch it anytime.

I was able to see this film in all of its glory back in the early 1970s at the Universal Studios Ampitheatrer. They were running the good old Universal Studio Monster films which included Lugosi's Dracula, Karloff's Frankenstein and Chaney's The Wolf Man. I really love those great Universal Studio Monsters.