"New music"

[Henk]

Music of Boulez, Rihm and followers is like a toxic.

[karlhenning]

But that's funny.  For, in the first place, I greatly enjoy Le marteau sans maître and Pli selon pli (which do not pamper me).

In the second, just last night a friend of mine at the museum was telling me how much he likes the disc with Sur incises on it.

[Henk]

Maybe the music of Boulez, Rihm should be separated from music made by more classical composers. Peter Sloterdijk remarks that "performance music" and, what is known as "new music" are forms of music that are directed "towards the world". Whereas more "classical" music escapes the world.

I haven't find out yet if Boulez and Rihm, among others, are followers of Wagner or are doing really new things.

What do you guys think?

[Henk]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Musik

http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/

http://tinyurl.com/lkfhw4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Simplicity

[Henk]

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Music-After-Directions-Paperbacks/dp/0198165110/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[Henk]

http://www.amazon.com/Contemporary-Composers-Music-Elliott-Schwartz/dp/0306808196/ref=pd_sim_b_3

[some guy]

Music of Boulez, Rihm and followers is like a toxic.

You mean "like a tonic"?

[Henk]

The period of serialism (Boulez, Gerhard, Petrassi, Wuorinen) is a transition period from (traditional) classical music (Bartok, Janacek, Stravinsky, Messiaen and Lutoslawski being among the latest ones) to "new music" (Ligeti, Rihm, Birtwistle a.o). Some composers can't be put in one of these boxes (and probably more when regarded strictly) and not in that of late-romanticism (Donatoni, Carter).

[Maciek]

Doesn't "transition" imply some sort of chronology? It's an odd "transition" with Ligeti dead but Boulez and Wuorinen alive and kicking...

I think Venetian Games is one of the greatest examples of "traditional classical music".

[Henk]

Doesn't "transition" imply some sort of chronology? It's an odd "transition" with Ligeti dead but Boulez and Wuorinen alive and kicking...

I think Venetian Games is one of the greatest examples of "traditional classical music".

Ligeti was a front-runner. I will check out Venetian Games.

[Maciek]

Do, by all means!

[Henk]

Late-romantic work isn't bad either. It can be seen as a farewell to the good times, as Nietzsche (again) writes. Schoenberg, Berg and Webern can be seen as late-romantic composers with a new method of composing, leading to serialism.

The traditional classical music exalted the world, where we were escaping from the real world.

So now, as Fukuyama writes, history has ended. No late-romantic works more to view back, but "new music" leading us to new horizons in our real world.

Henk

[jochanaan]

It could be argued that the most radical of last century's composers were the Romantics' true inheritors, while more conservative composers actually broke with the Romantic trend of ever-increasing innovation and complexity.

[bwv 1080]

 the high culture that existed in the 19th century is dead and classical music is now completely irrelevant except to a small subculture of fans. You cannot say that modern music is "leading" us anywhere.  There are some guys like Wuorinen, Ligeti, Boulez etc who wrote some cool music, that is the end of it.  There is no tradition anymore for someone to assume the mantle of.  Eventually as orchestras continue to die out and petrify, it will become increasingly silly for people to write new music for them and then perhaps you can talk about the death of the tradition entirely

[some guy]

It could be argued that the most radical of last century's composers were the Romantics' true inheritors, while more conservative composers actually broke with the Romantic trend of ever-increasing innovation and complexity.

QFT

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I haven't find out yet if Boulez and Rihm, among others, are followers of Wagner or are doing really new things.

What do you guys think?

I think you should clear your head of this rubbish (Nietzsche, Peter Sloterdijk [whoever the hell he is], "pampering" etc.) and just try to listen to the music with an open mind. 

[Henk]

http://upers.kuleuven.be/en/titel/9061869293

[Henk]

It could be argued that the most radical of last century's composers were the Romantics' true inheritors, while more conservative composers actually broke with the Romantic trend of ever-increasing innovation and complexity.

Do you really mean to say that the late-romantic composer do more challenging composing then the serialists and their inheritors?

[Henk]

But that's funny.  For, in the first place, I greatly enjoy Le marteau sans maître and Pli selon pli (which do not pamper me).

In the second, just last night a friend of mine at the museum was telling me how much he likes the disc with Sur incises on it.

I mean pampering as a condition to listen to music. I mean not just to enjoy music. Enjoying music is pampering. Exaltation is better, finding out what you really like, what's "good music" is better. I also like Boulez to some degree but see his music as transitionary.

[karlhenning]

Enjoying music is pampering. Exaltation is better

I've pointed out before that this is a false dichotomy (which by now rings such a false note, as to call into question your own ears).  To borrow your faltering terminology, there is "enjoyment" in "exaltation."