Re: The Classical Chat Thread

[Henk]

late-romantic music: lack of rhythm.

[karlhenning]

I consider it a different function for rhythm, and not a lack.

[Henk]

Ok, Karl thanks. But better or worse? 

[Henk]

full text "Janacek, his live and works": http://www.archive.org/stream/jeosjanacek000673mbp/jeosjanacek000673mbp_djvu.txt

[jochanaan]

Ok, Karl thanks. But better or worse? 

Check out the first movements of Tchaikovsky's Fourth Symphony and Mahler's Third, then decide.

[karlhenning]

Ok, Karl thanks. But better or worse? 

Why does different need to be either better or worse?

[Henk]

Check out the first movements of Tchaikovsky's Fourth Symphony and Mahler's Third, then decide.

Tchaikovsky being romantic and Mahler late-romantic?

[jochanaan]

Tchaikovsky being romantic and Mahler late-romantic?

No, they both came relatively late in the Romantic period, if such a period can actually be defined.  I mentioned those two compositions in particular for their rhythmic complexity.

[Brian]

No, they both came relatively late in the Romantic period, if such a period can actually be defined.  I mentioned those two compositions in particular for their rhythmic complexity.

If Tchaikovsky counts, then surely we must mention Dvorak's last three symphonies too.    And the inner movements of Tchaikovsky's Sixth. And I don't know what category Henk places Villa-Lobos in, but that second movement of Bachianas No 5... and then there's "Uranus" from The Planets ... yes, late romantic music can be quite rhythmically interesting if it wants to be.

[jochanaan]

If Tchaikovsky counts, then surely we must mention Dvorak's last three symphonies too.    And the inner movements of Tchaikovsky's Sixth.

Indeed.

And I don't know what category Henk places Villa-Lobos in, but that second movement of Bachianas No 5... and then there's "Uranus" from The Planets ... yes, late romantic music can be quite rhythmically interesting if it wants to be.

Of course I can't speak for Henk, but I don't see Villa-Lobos as being a late Romantic, nor a Neoclassicist nor modernist.  If you can define his music at all, it could be called "world-classical."  And The Planets is right on the cusp of modernism, tremendously radical for England when it was written.

[Henk]

Shostakovich: composer of the "grand style" truly (where Bruckner, Wagner, Mahler the case was the lie of "grand style", because of life-denying romantic music) or just a late-romantic? I think it's not romantic music at all.

[Brian]

Shostakovich: composer of the "grand style" truly (where Bruckner, Wagner, Mahler the case was the lie of "grand style", because of life-denying romantic music) or just a late-romantic? I think it's not romantic music at all.

Bruckner a life-denying composer? Have you heard his Seventh Symphony? I should think life-affirming is a better word.
Very few people consider Shostakovich a romantic composer, although in some ways I think his Tenth Symphony is a very romantic symphony. If anything, Shostakovich is a composer who transcends genre altogether.

[Henk]

I think really in Bruckner's music the lie of life-affirming / of "grand style" can be heard. It's great / affirming in the denying of reality in stead. His music can only lead to nihilism.

[Henk]

Wikipedia shows this list of neoclassical composers:

   * Yasushi Akutagawa
   * Béla Bartók
   * Grażyna Bacewicz
   * Leonard Bernstein
   * Nadia Boulanger
   * Benjamin Britten
   * Ferruccio Busoni
   * Aaron Copland
   * David Diamond
   * George Enescu
   * Manuel de Falla
   * Irving Fine
   * Camargo Guarnieri
   * Paul Hindemith
   * Arthur Honegger
   * Dmitri Kabalevsky
   * Stefan Kisielewski
   * Ernst Krenek
   * George Lloyd
   * Bohuslav Martinů
   * Darius Milhaud
   * Carl Nielsen
   * Francis Poulenc
   * Sergei Prokofiev
   * Maurice Ravel
   * Ottorino Respighi
   * Erik Satie
   * Ahmed Adnan Saygun
   * Dmitri Shostakovich
   * Igor Stravinsky
   * Virgil Thomson
   * Heitor Villa-Lobos

Now is this right?? For example should Prokofiev on this list, is he not a late-romantic composer? What is exactly the neoclassical school, inspirated by the classical era in music (Mozart, Haydn) or by Greek culture??

Henk

[ChamberNut]

I think really in Bruckner's music the lie of life-affirming / of "grand style" can be heard. It's great / affirming in the denying of reality in stead. His music can only lead to nihilism.

In today's news:


Listening to Bruckner leads to nihilism!!!

[Brian]

In today's news:


Listening to Bruckner leads to nihilism!!!

I think I'll go be a nihilist now!  0:)

[Dr. Dread]

I think I'll go be a nihilist now!  0:)

Who cares? 

[ChamberNut]

Who cares? 

Me Nihilist Dave.  Now we know what MN stands for. 

[Henk]

Romanticism (late romanticism) reveals a reactive desire: wanting to rest in nature.

Nietzsche saw himself as antipode of a romantic, defined as some how escapes from reality because he has "tired nerves" and because of that he needs either unnatural rest or unnatural strong stimulus.

Read this somewhere on internet.

[Henk]

Me Nihilist Dave.  Now we know what MN stands for.