Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues

Started by The Mad Hatter, June 07, 2007, 03:04:39 AM

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Madiel

Quote from: hvbias on July 05, 2021, 12:03:10 PM
The resonance and ringing can get too much for me for listening to Melnikov in long stretches.

Scherbakov used to be my reference; maybe it being the first one I heard had some impact but I like to think I can look past that as I've readily discarded imprint recordings in the past or only made them part of nostalgia listening. Boris Petrushansky is now my reference set.

Just looking at Petrushansky's timings is enough to scare me, frankly. S   L   O   W.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Madiel

Next one I listened to...



I quite like this, really. First and foremost, there wasn't a single piece where I thought the tempo choice or other core aspects of the performance was weird. Sure, there are cases where it's not how I would envisage the piece, but at no stage did I feel like Rubackyté was wrecking the character of the music, for example by taking off at breakneck speed (or dragging, though she doesn't tend towards notably slow speeds anyway). A few of the 'big' fugues (B minor, F sharp minor, the opening section of D minor) are played pretty fast but they're not played so aggressively that it doesn't work.

Real disappointments are rare. I didn't much like the E flat prelude or fugue, and the G sharp minor fugue seemed pretty safe. That was about it. There was a lot more to like than that.

Downsides? I guess there isn't often the degree of drama you get from some others (though she sure does go for it in the D minor finale), possibly because the recording doesn't have quite the immediate presence of some. It's not a bad recording, just decent rather than outstanding. And just occasionally her sense of rhythm is a tiny bit lumpy - over and above what I sense are her inclinations to give the music a Romantic touch. Certainly she's not a full anti-Romantic, but nor is she slathering on Romanticism in places it doesn't seem appropriate.

I reckon this is a pretty solid option, one that will properly convey the music to anyone who decides that Brilliant Classics is the right price range for them. You could almost certainly do worse.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

milk

Quote from: Madiel on July 05, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Next one I listened to...



I quite like this, really. First and foremost, there wasn't a single piece where I thought the tempo choice or other core aspects of the performance was weird. Sure, there are cases where it's not how I would envisage the piece, but at no stage did I feel like Rubackyté was wrecking the character of the music, for example by taking off at breakneck speed (or dragging, though she doesn't tend towards notably slow speeds anyway). A few of the 'big' fugues (B minor, F sharp minor, the opening section of D minor) are played pretty fast but they're not played so aggressively that it doesn't work.

Real disappointments are rare. I didn't much like the E flat prelude or fugue, and the G sharp minor fugue seemed pretty safe. That was about it. There was a lot more to like than that.

Downsides? I guess there isn't often the degree of drama you get from some others (though she sure does go for it in the D minor finale), possibly because the recording doesn't have quite the immediate presence of some. It's not a bad recording, just decent rather than outstanding. And just occasionally her sense of rhythm is a tiny bit lumpy - over and above what I sense are her inclinations to give the music a Romantic touch. Certainly she's not a full anti-Romantic, but nor is she slathering on Romanticism in places it doesn't seem appropriate.

I reckon this is a pretty solid option, one that will properly convey the music to anyone who decides that Brilliant Classics is the right price range for them. You could almost certainly do worse.
nice! I just happened to be testing this. She's interesting. And dramatic sometimes. A little jagged.

Madiel

#143
I've stumbled across what seems to be a pretty comprehensive list of the full versions of op.87 (in a review of Sheppard's version). It lists 17 versions (4 from Nikolayeva including a DVD in 1992).

https://dschjournal.com/cd-reviews-46#opus087

I don't trust all the dates that it gives, they are release dates rather than recording dates, and some of them appear to be of re-releases rather than the original.

EDIT: It's missing an 18th and 19th version, Kori Bond and Peter Donohoe. Plus there's Olli Mustonen if you can bother piecing it together across 2 albums interspersed with Bach.

SECOND EDIT: I've just worked out that between my 2 streaming services, I can listen to every single one of the 18 audio versions (well, for Nikolayeva on Hyperion that's because I have the CDs, Hyperion doesn't do streaming). The couple I couldn't find on Primephonic were hiding on Deezer (where the metadata is a lot more random). Yay!

I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

aukhawk

#144
Quote from: Madiel on July 05, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Next one I listened to...



I quite like this, really. First and foremost, there wasn't a single piece where I thought the tempo choice or other core aspects of the performance was weird. Sure, there are cases where it's not how I would envisage the piece, but at no stage did I feel like Rubackyté was wrecking the character of the music, for example by taking off at breakneck speed (or dragging, though she doesn't tend towards notably slow speeds anyway). A few of the 'big' fugues (B minor, F sharp minor, the opening section of D minor) are played pretty fast but they're not played so aggressively that it doesn't work.

Real disappointments are rare. I didn't much like the E flat prelude or fugue, and the G sharp minor fugue seemed pretty safe. That was about it. There was a lot more to like than that.

Downsides? I guess there isn't often the degree of drama you get from some others (though she sure does go for it in the D minor finale), possibly because the recording doesn't have quite the immediate presence of some. It's not a bad recording, just decent rather than outstanding. And just occasionally her sense of rhythm is a tiny bit lumpy - over and above what I sense are her inclinations to give the music a Romantic touch. Certainly she's not a full anti-Romantic, but nor is she slathering on Romanticism in places it doesn't seem appropriate.

I reckon this is a pretty solid option, one that will properly convey the music to anyone who decides that Brilliant Classics is the right price range for them. You could almost certainly do worse.

I've listened to a few tracks, don't have much to say, I'm a bit off-put by her preference for quickish tempi in the big fugues.  On the other hand I think the piano sound is rather good, very natural, perhaps to a fault of seeming a bit bland.  (I never really know whether I'm hearing the piano or the recording, when judging these things - it's either a moderate piano very well recorded, or a very good piano moderately recorded.)  I do like the cover art though!

Quote from: Madiel on July 05, 2021, 01:57:58 PM
Just looking at Petrushansky's timings is enough to scare me, frankly. S   L   O   W.

I do like  s l o w  so I gave him a spin.  His total duration is 20 minutes longer than Nikolayeva.  Looking forward to this ...


Shostakovich Op.87, Boris Petrushansky

Very disappointing.  Occasionally things come off but more often they don't.  At least in the tracks I've sampled.  The Prelude 8 in f sharp minor for example is a disaster - slow, hesitant, sounds like he's sight-reading it for the first time.  The subsequent big Fugue - more than a minute slower than Nikolayeva - is flat as a pancake.  The Fugue 6 in b minor - again nearly a minute slower than Nik - starts OK but decelerates and judders to a painful end like a ham actor in his death scene - "I die! I ... die! See how ... I ... ... die!"  The Fugue 16 in b flat minor takes over 10 minutes and simply fails to hang together.  The Passacaglia (Prelude 12) is soporific.  Sad face  :(

And the piano sound is - similar to Rubackyté, but a bit lacking in body by comparison, and certainly not as good as Nik or Lim or Jarrett.

aukhawk

Quote from: Madiel on July 06, 2021, 12:09:23 AM
https://dschjournal.com/cd-reviews-46#opus087

I don't trust all the dates that it gives, they are release dates rather than recording dates, and some of them appear to be of re-releases rather than the original.
EDIT: It's missing an 18th and 19th version, Kori Bond and Peter Donohoe. Plus there's Olli Mustonen if you can bother piecing it together across 2 albums interspersed with Bach.

It does mention Kori Bond "romanticised vision" and it dates Keith Jarrett as 2007 but my CDs have 1992 printed on them.  (Jarrett's take a bit lightweight in this music, I feel.)

Madiel

I think the complete list, with recording dates from the information I can get (most are definite a few are secondhand info), is as follows:

1.   Nikolayeva 1962
2.   Woodward 1975
3.   Nikolayeva 1987
4.   Papadopoulous 1989/90
5.   Nikolayeva 1990
6.   Jarrett 1991
7.   Weichert 1991/2
8.   Petrushansky 1992
9.   Nikolayeva 1992 (DVD)
10.   Ashkenazy 1996-98
11.   Scherbakov 1999
12.   Bond 2004/6
13.   Rubackyte 2006
14.   Stone 2007
15.   Jalbert 2007
16.   Lin 2008
17.    Melnikov 2008/9
18.   Donohoe 2014
19.   Sheppard 2015 (live)

20.   Levit (2021...)
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Jo498

Mustonen 1998 BMG/RCA and 2003 Ondine, combined with Bach WTC 1.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Madiel

Quote from: Jo498 on July 06, 2021, 05:58:22 AM
Mustonen 1998 BMG/RCA and 2003 Ondine, combined with Bach WTC 1.

Yes. Explicitly deciding not to count that mess.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Karl Henning

Quote from: aukhawk on July 06, 2021, 04:44:42 AM
I've listened to a few tracks, don't have much to say, I'm a bit off-put by her preference for quickish tempi in the big fugues.  On the other hand I think the piano sound is rather good, very natural, perhaps to a fault of seeming a bit bland.  (I never really know whether I'm hearing the piano or the recording, when judging these things - it's either a moderate piano very well recorded, or a very good piano moderately recorded.)  I do like the cover art though!

I do like  s l o w  so I gave him a spin.  His total duration is 20 minutes longer than Nikolayeva.  Looking forward to this ...


Shostakovich Op.87, Boris Petrushansky

Very disappointing.  Occasionally things come off but more often they don't.  At least in the tracks I've sampled.  The Prelude 8 in f sharp minor for example is a disaster - slow, hesitant, sounds like he's sight-reading it for the first time.  The subsequent big Fugue - more than a minute slower than Nikolayeva - is flat as a pancake.  The Fugue 6 in b minor - again nearly a minute slower than Nik - starts OK but decelerates and judders to a painful end like a ham actor in his death scene - "I die! I ... die! See how ... I ... ... die!"  The Fugue 16 in b flat minor takes over 10 minutes and simply fails to hang together.  The Passacaglia (Prelude 12) is soporific.  Sad face  :(

And the piano sound is - similar to Rubackyté, but a bit lacking in body by comparison, and certainly not as good as Nik or Lim or Jarrett.

Interesting.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on July 06, 2021, 07:15:14 AM
Yes. Explicitly deciding not to count that mess.

I can see not wanting to unpack it ....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

staxomega

#151
Quote from: Madiel on July 05, 2021, 01:57:58 PM
Just looking at Petrushansky's timings is enough to scare me, frankly. S   L   O   W.

Yes indeed this might be an opposite reaction forming from years of listening to Scherbakov  ;D Serious answer though I had not done any comparisons with anyone as far as tempo goes. I just did some comparisons against Melnikov and Melnikov is definitely more balanced. In isolation what I didn't mind about Petrushansky is it's the slower pieces that he really slows down, he doesn't drag down the faster ones as well. Some of his timings in slower pieces are near identical to Melnikov like Fugue No. 8

I listened to Levit in the C major prelude, I agree with you, this is very good and I'm now more eager to hear this than when I saw the announcement. Strangely this is the most resonant recording I've heard from him. This must be a stylistic choice for people. 

On Muza Rubackyte there are a bunch of high frequency digital clicks throughout it that caused me to scratch it off my list.

I will have to revisit Jenny Lin, I seem to recall liking it but thought it was maybe a bit detached sounding? Relying on really old memory here.

Edit: I remembered wrong about Melnikov, the recording quality is a lot more tolerable than I had thought.

aukhawk

#152
Quote from: Jo498 on July 06, 2021, 05:58:22 AM
Mustonen 1998 BMG/RCA and 2003 Ondine, combined with Bach WTC 1.

I was listening to that Ondine this afternoon (just cherrypicking the Shostakovich bits from vol.2) and the piano sound is probably THE best of any of the versions I've dipped into in the last few days.  Mustonen is generally on the (very) fast side, but despite that I was convinced.


I also dipped into Caroline Weichert, attracted by the description "seductively atmospheric conception" which turned out to be rather wide of the mark, I thought.

Shostakovich, The Solo Piano Works, Caroline Weichert

In fact this turns out to be the most straight-ahead, unaffected version I have ever heard, strict tempo with very little rubato or pauses of any sort, generally on the quick side of average - almost taking us back to a world of early HIP Bach performance.   The contrast between this immaculate clockwork Prelude 8 and the one served up by Petrushansky could not be more marked - and the subsequent big Fugue is driven along with metronomic purpose.  Of its type, I liked this a lot, though I was expecting something quite different and more affected.
The sound is pretty good too and I'll be listening to some of the other piano music from this set.  Today was definitely not a wasted day.

Karl Henning

Quote from: aukhawk on July 06, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
I was listening to that Ondine this afternoon (just cherrypicking the Shostakovich bits from vol.2) and the piano sound is probably THE best of any of the versions I've dipped into in the last few days.  Mustonen is generally on the (very) fast side, but despite that I was convinced.


I also dipped into Caroline Weichert, attracted by the description "seductively atmospheric conception" which turned out to be rather wide of the mark, I thoiught.


Shostakovich, The Solo Piano Works, Caroline Weichert

In fact this turns out to be the most straight-ahead, unaffected version I have ever heard, strict tempo with very little rubato or pauses of any sort, generally on the quick side of average - almost taking us back to a world of early HIP Bach performance.   The contrast between this immaculate clockwork Prelude 8 and the one served up by Petrushansky could not be more marked.  Of its type, I liked this a lot, though I was expecting something quite different and more affected.
The sound is pretty good too and I'll be listening to some of the other piano music from this set.  Today was definitely not a wasted day.

Thanks for reminding me torevisit Mustonen.  It's a while since I listened to those two volumes, but I remember really enjoying them.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

aukhawk

#154
I could only find a 'Volume 2' (so an assorted 12 of the Prelude & Fugue pairs) - I couldn't see a link or a stream for Volume 1 anywhere.

Karl Henning

Quote from: aukhawk on July 06, 2021, 03:08:11 PM
I could only find a 'Volume 2' (so an assorted 12 of the Prelude & Fugue pairs) - I couldn't see a link or a stream for Volume 1 anywhere.

A friend gave me that as a gift some time ago.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

staxomega

Listening to Olli Part 2 now, the recordings of Op. 87 are quite resonant. These are too mannered for me, the strangest for me is the way he modulates the dynamics, seemingly randomly.

People should check out Bach's Prelude 10, this is the weirdest I have ever heard this piece and I collect WTCs from pre-war pianists.

Karl Henning

Quote from: hvbias on July 06, 2021, 03:16:14 PM
Listening to Olli Part 2 now, the recordings of Op. 87 are quite resonant. These are too mannered for me, the strangest for me is the way he modulates the dynamics, seemingly randomly.

I know he's not everybody's money, to be sure.  A bit like Lennie's Leningrad with Chicago: I wouldn't suggest that anyone take it for a model; but I find I really enjoy it ....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

staxomega

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2021, 03:20:41 PM
I know he's not everybody's money, to be sure.  A bit like Lennie's Leningrad with Chicago: I wouldn't suggest that anyone take it for a model; but I find I really enjoy it ....

There are people that don't like that Leningrad ??? What are these boomers that don't like anything other than Mozart's farfing music played at below conversational levels? ;D

Madiel

#159
Quote from: aukhawk on July 06, 2021, 03:08:11 PM
I could only find a 'Volume 2' (so an assorted 12 of the Prelude & Fugue pairs) - I couldn't see a link or a stream for Volume 1 anywhere.

They were on 2 different record labels so there's no guarantee you will find both in the same place. You might find volume 1 as part of "The RCA Recordings".

The whole approach greatly offends the notion of op.87 as a single coherent work. Bach might have gathered his preludes and fugues from things he had composed across his career, but Shostakovich wrote his in 4 months with barely any interruption.

I can cope with people performing a selection given the sheer size of the work, but what Mustonen did suggests he just doesn't understand it. Or his record companies didn't.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!