5 Worst Composers Ever!!

Started by snyprrr, August 25, 2009, 09:03:10 AM

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CD

Quote from: Lethe on August 25, 2009, 12:59:53 PM
Is he the synthesized chorus guy? His name rings a bell.

Gladiator, Thin Red Line, the Pirates flicks, other stuff. I think he uses those ugly synth orchestral sounds in Pirates. Blech.

Tapkaara

Quote from: Superhorn on August 25, 2009, 12:12:24 PM
  For me it would be Vivaldi, who didn't write 500 concertos but the same concerto 500 times, Gounod, whose music is as bland as white bread, Poulenc, whose music is insufferably cutesy pie most of the time, Kurt Weill, whose name should be Kurt Vile, (except for his early works which are somewhat better), and John Cage, who didn't really produce compositions, but just a collection of gimmicks.


    :P                  ::)                   >:(

Good stuff! I agree with the Vivaldi statement and I REALLY agree with the Cage comment.

DavidW

I have a feeling that most if not all of the posters here have not really listened to really bad music.

CD

Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I have a feeling that most if not all of the posters here have not really listened to really bad music.

I have a younger brother that listens to country music and two sisters that listen to contemporary hip hop.  :-X

Tapkaara

Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I have a feeling that most if not all of the posters here have not really listened to really bad music.

I, for one, have heard lots of bad music!

I don't think anyone should be insulted or feel that they have to be on the defensive if one of THEIR favorite composers is mentioned on someone else's short list of the "worst composers."

This is one thing I don't like too much about the internet forum experience. If I say I don't like Schönberg, for example, my sanity, taste and knowledge of music is called into questions and I'm a philistine, or don't "understand" his music, or this or that. (By the way, I am not saying that someone has said that to me in here...at least not yet. This is my pre-emptive strike.) Why can't I just not like this composer?

I hope that we can continue to discuss the composers we don't OPENLY without having to worry about taken to task by someone who understands music better than you

Franco

Quote from: corey on August 25, 2009, 01:22:21 PM
I have a younger brother that listens to country music and two sisters that listen to contemporary hip hop.  :-X

What's bad about that?  I do too.

some guy

#46
Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I have a feeling that most if not all of the posters here have not really listened to really bad music.
Hilarious, David! Exactly what I was just thinking.

By the way, Tap, you should be able certainly to dislike Schoenberg without being slammed. I think what happens, though, is that people don't just say "I dislike Cage," for example, but "Cage is one of the five worst composers," which he is of course very far from being.

To do that is to substitute your personal tastes for some sort of critical acuity. That will get you thrashed every time, and good for the thrashers, I'd say!

(You understand that some of the times I've used "you" and "your" in this post I was not talking about you, Tapkaara.)

Brian

Quote from: Lethe on August 25, 2009, 10:10:16 AM
Damnit, I thought the militant J Strauss fans would be sending hatemail by now :'( Perhaps this is because they all do suck - which is true as far as I am concerned 0:)
I'm a fan of Strauss II, but not Strauss I, your target. :)

Dana

Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 01:21:10 PMI have a feeling that most if not all of the posters here have not really listened to really bad music.

      Every so often, I put a Creed album on. I do not do it to remind myself how much smarter I am now that 10 years have passed.

**Takes cover behind couch before the stoning begins**

DavidW

Quote from: Dana on August 25, 2009, 03:47:25 PM
      Every so often, I put a Creed album on. I do not do it to remind myself how much smarter I am now that 10 years have passed.

**Takes cover behind couch before the stoning begins**

Sadly enough I used to listen to Creed too.  But we've recovered and moved on. ;D

I'm sure to get stoned when I revealed that I used to listen to Michelle Branch! :D

Tapkaara

Quote from: some guy on August 25, 2009, 03:19:51 PM
Hilarious, David! Exactly what I was just thinking.

By the way, Tap, you should be able certainly to dislike Schoenberg without being slammed. I think what happens, though, is that people don't just say "I dislike Cage," for example, but "Cage is one of the five worst composers," which he is of course very far from being.

To do that is to substitute your personal tastes for some sort of critical acuity. That will get you thrashed every time, and good for the thrashers, I'd say!

(You understand that some of the times I've used "you" and "your" in this post I was not talking about you, Tapkaara.)

Well, there is no scientific way of naming the 5 best composers or the 5 worst composers. There is no be-all-and-end-all list that no one can argue against. So, i think it goes without saying (or at least it should) that when someone says "Cage is one of the worst composers" that it is ultimately his opinion and not a statement of fact.

But, I realize that not everyone thinks like I do, so I was sure to say in my first post here that my top 5 were my opinion, and not fact.

In saying that it is a matter of opinion, I cannot stand it when someone else (with an opposite opinion) tries to convince to me the contrary. If I say I don't like Schönberg, I would hope that if you do like him yourself, that you do not call my tastes into question. I have every right not to like him as the next guy has to adore him. Neither of us are right, neither of us are wrong. That's why I hate being told I'm wrong!

So far the conversation has been civil in here, which I appreciate. I have experienced elsewhere much more hostility in discussions such as this, which is a shame. This really is a good group of people.

Lethevich

Quote from: Brian on August 25, 2009, 03:43:30 PM
I'm a fan of Strauss II, but not Strauss I, your target. :)

Indeed! JS the 1st fails even at being the best at writing the same waltz 500 times.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

DavidW

I think that listing famous composers as the "worst ever" demonstrates a lack of breadth.  You might be entitled to your opinion, but it does not seem well informed.  I was actually parodying my favorite film critic, Mark Kermode, who constantly hears from people "that was the worst movie I've ever seen" he replies "no that is not the worst movie that you've ever seen.  Come to my house and I will show you the worst movie that you have ever seen." :D  And they say that due to not having ever seen a truly bad movie.

I think it's the same with you Tapkaara, you say that about Mozart, Schoenberg etc because you have not truly heard bad music.  You haven't even heard mediocre music, or even merely good music if you can listen to great music and find it to be "the worst ever".  

So come to my house Tapkaara and I will play for you the worst music that you have ever heard! :D

Dana

Quote from: Tapkaara on August 25, 2009, 04:00:07 PMWell, there is no scientific way of naming the 5 best composers or the 5 worst composers. There is no be-all-and-end-all list that no one can argue against.

      One might argue on an absolute artistic level that music cannot be judged on a "good vs. bad" scale. Value is very much in the eye of the beholder (although not entirely).

Tapkaara

Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 04:21:20 PM
I think that listing famous composers as the "worst ever" demonstrates a lack of breadth.  You might be entitled to your opinion, but it does not seem well informed.  I was actually parodying my favorite film critic, Mark Kermode, who constantly hears from people "that was the worst movie I've ever seen" he replies "no that is not the worst movie that you've ever seen.  Come to my house and I will show you the worst movie that you have ever seen." :D  And they say that due to not having ever seen a truly bad movie.

I think it's the same with you Tapkaara, you say that about Mozart, Schoenberg etc because you have not truly heard bad music.  You haven't even heard mediocre music, or even merely good music if you can listen to great music and find it to be "the worst ever".  

So come to my house Tapkaara and I will play for you the worst music that you have ever heard! :D

I appreciate the invitation. I wish it were that easy!

I will say, though, that I my comments "don't seem well informed." Of course they are. I probably hear as much Mozart as I do any other composer because I listen to a lot of classical radio (either "real radio" or online radio) and the Mozart worshippers who are program directors at these stations sprinkel the broadcast schedule with PLENTY of Moazrt all day, every day. I have heard countless concerti, symphonies, sonatas, you name it. Despite my best efforts to say "Hey, I am into this! I really like this music!", alas, I cannot.

But you see, this is me, not Mozart. It's my OPINION that he is a bad composer, not a fact. Maybe it's better I say he is one of my least favorite. Hmmm. The fact of the matter is, TO ME, he is one of the worst. This has nothing to do with his technical skill or anything like that...he obviously know how to write music. It's just that I cannot find his sound ultimately appealing.

And the same applies to Schönberg.

So, again, in my original post is said that is will list my 5 least favorite composers, instead of definitively naming the 5 worst. To do so is impossible. I have never doubted Mozart's and Schönberg's abilities as composers. They both knew what they were doing. It's just that what they did I do not like. It's just the way it is. But it does not mean I am ill-informed. I reject the notion that you must like Schönberg, Mozart, and others to be considered "well-informed" in all things musical. ;D

DavidW

Hearing alot of Mozart on the radio does not demonstrate breadth.  Classical radio is very narrow in focus, you clearly are lacking in exposure to a wide variety of music.  I don't think that you've thought out what it means for something to be the worst.

If Mozart is the worst, then you must consider the following to be better composers:

    * Lodovico Giustini (1685 - 1743)
    * Domenico Scarlatti (1685 - 1757)
    * Domenico Dalla Bella (fl. early 18th century, Venice)
    * Caterina Benedicta Grazianini (fl. early 18th century)
    * Maria Margherita Grimani (fl. early 18th century)
    * Giovanni Zamboni (fl. early 18th century)
    * Mlle Guédon de Presles (early 18th century–1754)
    * Curtis Morell (early 18th century–1754)
    * Jean-Baptiste Masse (c. 1700 - c. 1756)
    * Michel Blavet (1700 - 1768)
    * Johan Agrell (1701 - 1765)
    * Jean-Fery Rebel (the younger) (1701 - 1775)
    * Giovanni Battista Sammartini (c. 1701 - 1775)
    * Johann Ernst Eberlin (1702 - 1762)
    * Johann Gottlieb Graun (c. 1702-1771)
    * Carl Heinrich Graun (c. 1703-1759)
    * Rosanna Scalfi Marcello (fl. 1723–1742)
    * Carlos Seixas (1704-1742)
    * Giovanni Battista Pescetti (c. 1704 - c. 1766)
    * Santa Della Pietà (fl. c. 1725–1750, d. after 1774)
    * Carlo Cecere (1706 - 1761)
    * Baldassare Galuppi (1706 - 1785)
    * Georg Reutter (1708 - 1772)
    * Franz Benda (1709-1786)
    * Michel Corrette (1709 - 1795)
    * Christoph Schaffrath (1709 - 1763)
    * Princess Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709–1758)
    * Giovanni Battista Pergolesi (1710 - 1736)
    * Domenico Alberti (1710 - 1740)
    * Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (1710 – 1784)
    * Joshrup Basran (1710 - 1740)
    * Thomas Arne (1710 - 1778)
    * William Boyce (1711 - 1779)
    * Barbara of Portugal (1711–1758)
    * Frederick the Great (1712-1786)
    * John Stanley (1712 - 1786)
    * Johann Ludwig Krebs (1713 - 1780)
    * Per Brant (1714 - 1767)
    * Niccolò Jommelli (1714 - 1774)
    * Gottfried August Homilius (1714 - 1785)
    * Christoph Willibald Gluck (1714 - 1787)
    * Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (1714 - 1788)
    * Georg Christoph Wagenseil (1715 - 1777)
    * Jacques Duphly (1715 - 1789)
    * Johann Friedrich Doles (1715-1797)
    * Hinrich Philip Johnsen (1716 - 1779)
    * Johann Wenzel Anton Stamitz (1717 - 1757)
    * Elisabeth de Haulteterre (fl. 1737–1768)
    * Mlle Duval (1718–after 1775)
    * Leopold Mozart (1719 - 1787)
    * William Walond (1719 - 1768)
    * Joan Baptista Pla (c. 1720-1773)
    * Maria Teresa Agnesi (1720–1795)
    * Johann Friedrich Agricola (1720-1774)
    * Johann Christoph Altnickol (1720-1759)
    * Pieter Hellendaal (1721-1799)
    * Johann Philipp Kirnberger (1721 - 1783)
    * John Garth (1721 - 1810)
    * Sebastián Ramón de Albero y Añaños (1722 - 1756)
    * Georg Benda (1722 - 1795)
    * Carl Friedrich Abel (1723 - 1787)
    * Anna Amalia Princess of Prussia (1723–1787)
    * Maria Antonia Walpurgis of Bavaria (1724–1780)
    * Claude Balbastre (1724–1799)
    * Miss Davis (c. 1726–after 1755)
    * Johann Becker (1726-1803)
    * Johann Gottlieb Goldberg (1727 – 1756)
    * Tommaso Traetta (1727 - 1779)
    * Armand-Louis Couperin (1727 - 1789)
    * Niccolò Piccinni (1728 - 1800)
    * Florian Leopold Gassmann (1729 - 1774)[1]
    * Giuseppe Sarti (1729 - 1802)[2]
    * Antonio Soler (1729 - 1783)
    * Pieter van Maldere (1729-1798)
    * Luise Adelgunda Victoria Gottsched (died 1762)
    * Christian Cannabich (1731 - 1798)
    * Elisabetta de Gambarini (1731–1765)
    * Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809)
    * Josina Anna Petronella van Boetzelaer (1733–1787)
    * Anton Fils (1733 - 1760)
    * Benjamin Cooke (1734 - 1793)
    * François-Joseph Gossec (1734 - 1829)
    * Johann Gottfried Eckard (1735 - 1809)[3]
    * Johann Christian Bach (1735 - 1782)
    * Mme Papavoine (born c. 1735, fl. 1755-61)
    * Johann Georg Albrechtsberger (1736 - 1809)
    * Hélène-Louise Demars (b. c. 1736)
    * Michael Haydn (1737 - 1806)
    * Josef Mysliveček (1737 - 1781)
    * William Herschel (1738 - 1822)
    * Leopold Hofmann (1738 - 1793)
    * Anna Bon (born 1738/1739)
    * Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf (1739 - 1799)
    * Johann Baptist Vanhal (1739 - 1813)
    * Anna Amalia, Duchess of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1739–1807)
    * Mlle Guerin (born c. 1739, fl. 1755)
    * Isabelle de Charrière (1740–1805)
    * Luigi Gatti (1740 - 1817)
    * André Ernest Modeste Grétry (1741 - 1813)
    * Andrea Luchesi (1741 - 1801)
    * Giovanni Paisiello (1741 - 1816)
    * Václav Pichl (1741 - 1804)
    * Maria Carolina Wolf (1742–1820)
    * Luigi Boccherini (1743 - 1805)
    * Franz Nikolaus Novotny (1743 - 1773)
    * Anne Louise Boyvin d'Hardancourt Brillon de Jouy (1744–1824)
    * Marianne von Martínez (1744–1812)
    * Yekaterina Sinyavina (died 1784)
    * Carl Stamitz (1745 - 1801)
    * Maddalena Laura Sirmen (1745–1818)
    * Joseph Bologne, the Chevalier de Saint-Georges (1745 - 1799)
    * Marie Emmanuelle Bayon Louis (1746–1825)
    * Leopold Kozeluch (1747 - 1818)
    * Joseph Schuster (1748 - 1812)[4]
    * Henriette Adélaïde Villard de Beaumesnil (1748–1813)
    * Johann Nikolaus Forkel (1749-1818)
    * Domenico Cimarosa (1749-1801)
    * Jean-Frédéric Edelmann (1749-1794)
    * Maria Barthélemon (c. 1749–1799)
    * Antonín Kraft (c. 1749-1820)
    * Marianna von Auenbrugger (d. 1786)
    * Antonio Salieri (1750 - 1825)
    * Antonio Rosetti (c1750 - 1792)
    * Elizabeth Anspach (1750–1828)
    * Elizabeth Joanetta Catherine von Hagen (1750–1809/10)
    * Dmytro Bortniansky (1751 - 1825)
    * Maria Anna Mozart (1751–1829)
    * Mary Ann Pownall (1751–1796)
    * Corona Elisabeth Wilhelmine Schröter (1751–1802)
    * Mary Ann Wrighten (1751–1796)
    * Muzio Clementi (1752 - 1832)
    * Leopold Kozeluch (1752 - 1818)
    * Niccolò Antonio Zingarelli (1752 - 1837)
    * Juliane Reichardt (1752–1783)
    * Jane Savage (1752/3–1824)
    * Jean-Baptiste Bréval (1753 - 1823)
    * Vicente Martín y Soler (1754 - 1806)
    * Vincenzo Righini (1756 - 1812)
    * Giuseppe Antonio Capuzzi (1755 - 1818)
    * Countess Maria Theresia Ahlefeldt (1755–1810)
    * Mary Linwood (1755/6–1845)
    * Antoine-Frédéric Gresnick (1755 - 1799)
    * Francesca Lebrun also Franziska Danzi Lebrun (1756–1791)
    * Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756 - 1791)
    * Joseph Martin Kraus (1756 - 1792)
    * Paul Wranitzky (1756 - 1808)
    * Daniel Gottlob Türk (1756-1813)
    * Ignaz Pleyel (1757 - 1831)
    * Harriett Abrams (1758–1821)
    * Josepha Barbara Auernhammer (1758–1820)
    * François Devienne (1759 - 1803)[5]
    * Franz Vinzenz Krommer (1759 - 1831)
    * Maria Theresa von Paradis (1759 - 1824)
    * Maria Rosa Coccia (1759–1833)
    * Sophia Maria Westenholz (1759–1838)
    * Luigi Cherubini (1760 - 1842)
    * Johann Ladislaus Dussek (1760 - 1812)
    * Marie-Elizabeth Cléry (1761–after 1795)
    * Erik Tulindberg (1761-1814)
    * Marcos António da Fonseca Portugal (1762-1830)
    * Joseph de Momigny (1762 - 1842)
    * Adelheid Maria Eichner (1762–1787)
    * Jane Mary Guest (1762–1846)
    * Ann Valentine (1762–1842)
    * Franz Danzi (1763 - 1826)
    * Adalbert Gyrowetz (1763 - 1850)
    * Étienne Méhul (1763-1817)
    * Johann Simon Mayr (1763 - 1845)
    * Helene de Montgeroult (1764–1836)
    * Franz Xaver Süssmayr (1766 - 1803)
    * Samuel Wesley (1766 - 1837)
    * Anne-Marie Krumpholtz (1766–1813)
    * Caroline Wuiet (1766–1835)
    * Wenzel Muller (1767 - 1835)
    * Julie Candeille (1767–1834)
    * José Maurício Nunes Garcia (1767 - 1830)
    * Carlos Baguer (1768 - 1808)
    * Elizabeth Weichsell Billington (c.1768–1818)
    * Margarethe Danzi (1768–1800)
    * Francesco Gnecco (1769 - 1810)
    * Cecilia Maria Barthélemon (c. 1769–1840)
    * Maria Theresa Bland (c. 1769–1838)
    * Kateřina Veronika Anna Dusíkova (1769–1833)
    * Maria Margherita Grimani (fl. 18th century)
    * Vincenta Da Ponte (fl. second half 18th century)
    * Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827
    * Ferdinando Carulli (1770-1841)
    * Ferdinando Paer (1771-1839)
    * Johann Baptist Cramer (1771-1858)
    * Lucile Grétry (1772–1790)
    * Maria Frances Parke (1772–1822)
    * Sophie Bawr (1773–1860)
    * Maria Brizzi Giorgi (1775–1822)
    * João Domingos Bomtempo (1775-1842)
    * Sophia Corri Dussek (1775–1847)
    * Margaret Essex (1775–1807)
    * Sophie Gail (1775–1819)
    * Maria Hester Park (1775–1822)
    * Johann Nepomuk Hummel (1778-1837)
    * Fernando Sor (1778-1839)
    * Pauline Duchambge (1778–1858)
    * Joachim Nicolas Eggert (1779-1813)
    * Louise Reichardt (1779–1826)
    * Anthony Philip Heinrich (1781-1861)
    * Sophie Lebrun (1781–1863)
    * John Field (1782-1837)
    * Niccolò Paganini (1782-1840)
    * Daniel Auber (1782-1871)
    * Louis Spohr (1784-1859)
    * Teresa Belloc-Giorgi (1784–1855)
    * Bettina Brentano (1785–1859)
    * Catherina Cibbini-Kozeluch (1785–1858)
    * Isabella Colbran (1785–1845)
    * Fanny Krumpholtz Pittar (1785–1815)
    * Pietro Raimondi (1786-1853)
    * Carl Maria von Weber (1786-1826)
    * Friedrich Kuhlau (1786-1832)
    * Marie Bigot (1786–1820)
    * Le Sénéchal de Kerkado (c. 1786–after 1805)
    * Nicolas Bochsa (1789-1856)
    * Elena Asachi (1789–1877)
    * Maria Agata Szymanowska (1789–1831)
    * Harriet Browne (1790–1858)
    * Louis Joseph Ferdinand Herold (1791–1833)
    * Carl Czerny (1791-1857)
    * Giacomo Meyerbeer (1791-1864)
    * Gertrude van den Bergh (1793–1840)
    * Amalie, Princess of Saxony (1794–1870)
    * Olivia Buckley (born mid-1790s–after 1845)
    * Franz Berwald (1796-1868)
    * Carl Loewe (1796-1869)
    * Helene Liebmann (1796–1835)
    * Emilie Zumsteeg (1796–1857)
    * Gaetano Donizetti (1797-1848)
    * Franz Schubert (1797-1828)
    * Annette von Droste-Hülshoff (1797–1848)
    * Mme Delaval (fl. 1791–1802)
    * Mme Ravissa (fl. late 18th century)
    * Ekaterina Likoshin (fl. 1800–1810)
    * Katerina Maier (fl. c. 1800)
    * Agata Della Pietà (fl. c. 1800)

I doubt that you've heard the majority of the composers on that list, I doubt that even Gabriel and Gurn have heard every single one of them.  Yet you confidently claim that Mozart is worse than those composers because that is what it means to be the worst.  But the funny thing is that he is the most famous composer of that era.  You would truly have to belong to the cult of Newman to ascribe to that view even if it's only a matter of taste.  Do you see what the problem is now?

DavidW

And stop posting and reposting the "let me explain what an opinion is" nobody is confused about opinions vs facts as we are not three years old, and nobody thinks that you are asserting facts. :D  It's not a shield, it's not a valid point, it's not a relevant point.  I'm asking you to defend your position, not hide behind "I can think what I want!" that's not the point of a discussion.

If you are going to assert your opinion, then defend it. :)

Tapkaara

#57
Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 05:59:04 PM
Hearing alot of Mozart on the radio does not demonstrate breadth.  Classical radio is very narrow in focus, you clearly are lacking in exposure to a wide variety of music.  I don't think that you've thought out what it means for something to be the worst.

I doubt that you've heard the majority of the composers on that list, I doubt that even Gabriel and Gurn have heard every single one of them.  Yet you confidently claim that Mozart is worse than those composers because that is what it means to be the worst.  But the funny thing is that he is the most famous composer of that era.  You would truly have to belong to the cult of Newman to ascribe to that view even if it's only a matter of taste.  Do you see what the problem is now?

My original post in this thread:

Glass is a great composer. I can't believe how much flak he gets!

I won't go so far as to say who the 5 worst are, but I will list 5 that I can't stand.

Schonberg
Gershwin
Copland
Mozart
Glazunov

Of course, there are many more...

I don't believe I said Mozart was one of the 5 worst. I said he was in my 5 least favorites. And you are right, I haven't heard many of the composers on that list, so I cannot compare Mozart to composers I don't know..and I didn't do that anyway.

How can you say I obviously lack exposure to a wide variety of music? Don't you think that is a rather presumptuous? I'm sure you know composers I don't, and vice versa. But I would never try to claim that you lack any breadth of knowledge.

If hearing a lot of Mozart on the radio does not count toward hearing a lot of Mozart, what does? Hearing him in concert? On disc? Memorizing his scores? Performing his scores? Conducting his scores?

Tapkaara

#58
Quote from: DavidW on August 25, 2009, 06:04:19 PM
And stop posting and reposting the "let me explain what an opinion is" nobody is confused about opinions vs facts as we are not three years old, and nobody thinks that you are asserting facts. :D  It's not a shield, it's not a valid point, it's not a relevant point.  I'm asking you to defend your position, not hide behind "I can think what I want!" that's not the point of a discussion.

If you are going to assert your opinion, then defend it. :)

I don't think I'm talking to anyone like they are 3. I apologize if I'm coming off that way...

That I do not like Mozart is not a valid, relevant point?

How can I defend my distaste of Mozart? How can I defend the ennui I feel while listening to Mozart? I suppose I really don't know. I suppose there is no way to defend this, the same way I cannot defend my agnosticism to a hard-core Christian. To the intolerant, I will always be wrong.

But having said that, I find Mozart's music to be structurally sound and he had a facile talent for form and melody. But, for some reason, despite the man's obvious talent as a musician, I cannot take in his sound and get excited. I suppose if I were to say this about Glass, J. Strauss II, Franz von Suppe or some other "lesser" composer, my distaste would be OK. But Mozart is a sacred cow, and my honest distaste for him always seems to rile people. Again, I never claimed he was among the worst composers. I said if I could pick 5 that liked the least, Mozart would be on that list. I have never been able to understand why I must be taken to task for stating my honest opinion on this...!

I hardy think admiration for Mozart is requisite for having good taste in music or having a sound knowledge of music.

DavidW

Quote from: Tapkaara on August 25, 2009, 06:11:32 PM
I don't believe I said Mozart was one of the 5 worst. I said he was in my 5 least favorites. And you are right, I haven't heard many of the composers on that list, so I cannot compare Mozart to composers I don't know..and I didn't do that anyway.

But you used such extreme language to state your utter and complete distaste and hatred for his music, that "worst" conveys what you meant "least favorite" is a retroactive gentling of your OP.

QuoteHow can you say I obviously lack exposure to a wide variety of music? Don't you think that is a rather presumptuous? I'm sure you know composers I don't, and vice versa. But I would never try to claim that you lack any breadth of knowledge.

It's not presumptuous, there are only four plausible explanations for having Mozart and Schoenberg on a worst of list, you are-- (a) newbie, (b) narrow in focus, lacking in breadth (worshiping at the shrine of canonized music), (c) crackpot, and (d) troll.  You are clearly not a newbie, not a crackpot, nor are you a troll.  That only leaves lack of breadth.

If I posted a list of worst of-- "Beethoven, Bach, Dvorak and Bartok" you would just as equally be able to label me as lacking in breadth, though in that case trolling is not so easily ruled out. ;D  You can't assume a symmetry between us because you posting your list in the first place broke that symmetry, by posting that list you have invited judgment by your fellow posters.  I have not invited judgment by being clever enough to NOT post my own list.  It works every time. ;D

QuoteIf hearing a lot of Mozart on the radio does not count toward hearing a lot of Mozart, what does? Hearing him in concert? On disc? Memorizing his scores? Performing his scores? Conducting his scores?

I did not say that, you put words in my mouth.  I said that it did not count towards breadth, because that is simply listening to THE SAME COMPOSER.  Breadth means listening to MANY COMPOSERS.