Musical Offering BWV 1079

Started by James, September 01, 2009, 08:39:24 AM

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Mandryka

#120


Imagine a bunch of young British toffs playing Bach's musical offering, maybe in a private concert in an Oxford SCR, and you'll get the style of this recording from The Bach Players.

I love the sound in the ensemble pieces, the flute sounds fabulous to me, and it's very truthfully and beautifully engineered. I'm not sure what to make of the keyboard player in solo pieces, when he has nowhere to hide,  I enjoyed hearing the recercar à 6 for the way he rolls the chords, the ricercar à 3 less so - generally his approach is the opposite of flamboyant. The instrument is fine if limited in the bass department.

The approach generally suits me very well, maybe because I am both British and a gent. And indeed it may not be totally inappropriate given the context of the first performance
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Mandryka

#121
https://www.youtube.com/v/J69f-LdsacE

The above is Rosalyn Tureck's BBC recording of WTC 2. At the end of it (2:47 or thereabouts) there's an interview with Michael Oliver where she says that, according to Wolf, there is internal evidence in the music of the keyboard part of the trio sonata in opfer to show that it was "conceived" for the piano. "In the actual figuration of this work it's very clearly a pianistic kind of conception," she says. Is that right? I don't have Wolf's book.
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premont

#122
Quote from: Mandryka on July 25, 2019, 05:55:33 AM

The above is Rosalyn Tureck's BBC recording of WTC 2. At the end of it (2:47 or thereabouts) there's an interview with Michael Oliver where she says that, according to Wolf, there is internal evidence in the music of the keyboard part of the trio sonata in opfer to show that it was "conceived" for the piano. "In the actual figuration of this work it's very clearly a pianistic kind of conception," she says. Is that right? I don't have Wolf's book.

Wolff writes (Bach,The learned musician page 429):

Moreover the motivic material of the interludes in the three-part Ricercar, significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works, was inspired by and conceived for the fortepiano and its new - unlike the harpsichord's - dynamically flexible sound.

The words "significantly different from Bach's other keyboard works" may be questioned. Like all human beings Wolff sees what he wants.

He also argues, like so many before him, that the three-part Ricercare more or less is similar to the fugue Bach improvised on the kings fortepiano. Obviously this can't be proved.



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Mandryka

#123
Interestingly that's not what Tureck says, she specificly attributes to him the idea that the keyboard part in the trio sonata is for piano.

Just by the by the piece that seems to me "significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works", or indeed anyone else's, is the solo keyboard movement in BWV 1019.
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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on July 25, 2019, 07:44:20 AM
Interestingly that's not what Tureck says, she specificly attributes to him the idea that the keyboard part in the trio sonata is for piano.

There is no specific keyboard part in the trio sonata, only the figured bass part (continuo) which can be played on gamba or cello and any keyboard instrument.

Quote from: Mandryka
Just by the by the piece that seems to me "significantly different from Bach's  other keyboard works", or indeed anyone else's, is the solo keyboard movement in BWV 1019.

I agree very much with this.
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Mandryka

#125
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 25, 2019, 08:26:17 AM
There is no specific keyboard part in the trio sonata, only the figured bass part (continuo) which can be played on gamba or cello and any keyboard instrument.



I never knew that -- I wonder what Tureck was talking about then.  She must have just got confused, but still that's surprising given she knew she was being recorded etc.
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Mandryka

https://www.youtube.com/v/vEhdwBslkXU&t=787s

This is a concert in Munich with Johann Sonnleitner, Gudrun Schaumann, and Linde Brunmayr. Johann Sonnleitner will be familiar through his AoF

It's rapt and "deepy felt" -- I think it's a real achievement, and it must have been quite a night.

The sound on youtube is pretty terrible, though in a sense it's quite realistic. Imagine yourself at the back of the church, or maybe made to wait outside because you arrived late.

It helps greatly to play it through a good hifi, and not through computer speakers etc.
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Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

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Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on March 18, 2021, 04:29:33 AM
What's the point here?

She's clearly exploring some very original voice techniques, sometimes the sounds don't even seem to come from her body. I think an artist like Yamasaki is essentially within a tradition of self expression, a long tradition in the west which goes at least as far back as Fluxus.

Maybe someone here who understands Japanese could say whether there are any words involved in the performance, especially at the start where she seems to me to be putting words to the Bach tune.
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T. D.

I don't understand the Ami Yamasaki piece, but it appears to have been part of some kind of social media event.

Notes from the full Youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKh8i8Y7xg

National Kaohsiung Center for the Arts - Weiwuying
"Music Playing of Musical Offering"

I'm really honored to join this big challenge to play Musical Offering composed by J.S. Bach.

For participating, simply follow these steps:
1. Place your mobile phone or any devices for recording, and START
 ▸ Say Hi to everyone
 ▸ Start playing your Musical Offering version
 ▸ You can share some words before STOP
2. Upload the video to your social media.

#musicalofferingweiwuying

Mandryka

#131
Quote from: T. D. on March 18, 2021, 02:52:13 PM
I don't understand the Ami Yamasaki piece, but it appears to have been part of some kind of social media event.

Notes from the full Youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKh8i8Y7xg

National Kaohsiung Center for the Arts - Weiwuying
"Music Playing of Musical Offering"

I'm really honored to join this big challenge to play Musical Offering composed by J.S. Bach.

For participating, simply follow these steps:
1. Place your mobile phone or any devices for recording, and START
 ▸ Say Hi to everyone
 ▸ Start playing your Musical Offering version
 ▸ You can share some words before STOP
2. Upload the video to your social media.

#musicalofferingweiwuying


Here's one from the same idea which sounds like James Tenney, a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F

and another one which drags it kicking and screaming into the world of jazz

https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&ab_channel=NedRothenberg
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bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: Mandryka on March 19, 2021, 02:08:18 AM
Here's one from the same idea which sounds like James Tenney, a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Nkp_F-bSYAc&ab_channel=%E7%B6%AD%E6%B1%80%E6%98%A0%E5%83%8F

and another one which drags it kicking and screaming into the world of jazz

https://www.youtube.com/v/FaihimOoGP4&ab_channel=NedRothenberg

There's more of them under the mandarin hashtag, although they generally seem less interesting than the ones you posted. https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/%E8%A1%9B%E6%AD%A6%E7%87%9F%E6%8E%A5%E5%8A%9B%E8%81%AF%E6%BC%94%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E7%9A%84%E5%A5%89%E7%8D%BB

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#134


A middle of the road, and perfectly interpretation, well enough recorded, with no new bold insights as far as I can hear, but with one feature which makes it stand out as worth hearing: the harpsichord. It sounds good, not much bass but it sounds good nonetheless,  and when it plays in ensemble it twinkles, gleams, very nicely.

The violin and cello are well caught - you can hear the texture of the string - maybe too close for realism but still, rather fun to hear. And everyone plays in an engaged way.
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Mandryka

 https://www.youtube.com/v/rUvx_kH2qw0

Any thoughts about why Doeselaar appears twice - just a gimmick or is there an interesting reason?
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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on May 14, 2021, 01:35:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/rUvx_kH2qw0

Any thoughts about why Doeselaar appears twice - just a gimmick or is there an interesting reason?

That's very pedagogical, because each Doeselaar plays one of the two voices in the canon. The gambe doesn't participate in the canon but plays just the "royal" theme.
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Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#138
Quote from: Mandryka on March 09, 2023, 12:30:03 PM

First impressions are that this is a particularly sensual opfer. The harpsichordist, Philippe Grosvard, gives luxurious renditions of the two ricercars  - more luxe, calm et volupté than expected! The polar opposite of Hantai!

The trio sonata is hedonistic, I can imagine it being played in the souper du roi.
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Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mandryka on March 18, 2021, 05:01:22 AMShe's clearly exploring some very original voice techniques, sometimes the sounds don't even seem to come from her body. I think an artist like Yamasaki is essentially within a tradition of self expression, a long tradition in the west which goes at least as far back as Fluxus.

Maybe someone here who understands Japanese could say whether there are any words involved in the performance, especially at the start where she seems to me to be putting words to the Bach tune.

It's not Japanese language.