Now it's Beethoven's turn (but with a twist)

[(poco) Sforzando]

I am not of the opinion that you should start beginners with more "approachable" works. I took a general opera class once and we started out with Tristan. So there.

Definitely an approach. Did you find yourself starting as a beginner with the late quartets? If you were teaching the course, what would you do if your students found these works so bizarre and incomprehensible that they dropped out like flies?

[(poco) Sforzando]

I guess to elaborate on what I was suggesting before:

Looks like the Moonlight Sonata, the Diabelli Variations, the 1st symphony, the 5th symphony, one of the Op 18 String Quartets, and the Great Fugue would be the choices for my hypothetical class.

. . .

Well I don't know much about music, but heck I tried.

Surely you did, and in very interesting directions, attempting to dealing with form and not spending as much time on the "three periods." In the process you have perhaps gone to the opposite extreme as Gurn's first list. What if your students came to class on the 8th or 9th hour devoted to the Great Fugue and said, "Not the GF again! I'm so bored with this Great Fugue!" Do you think you have enough material for nine contact hours on this one piece alone?

[DavidW]

Surely you did, and in very interesting directions, attempting to dealing with form and not spending as much time on the "three periods." In the process you have perhaps gone to the opposite extreme as Gurn's first list. What if your students came to class on the 8th or 9th hour devoted to the Great Fugue and said, "Not the GF again! I'm so bored with this Great Fugue!" Do you think you have enough material for nine contact hours on this one piece alone?

Yeah probably would not have enough material, stretched a bit thin there.  Discussing two or three late works instead might have more of a payoff, or perhaps more time spent on rhythm.

[hornteacher]

Purchase this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=730

then this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=7250

then this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=755

DONE 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Purchase this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=730

then this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=7250

then this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=755

DONE 

That sure took a lot of thought on your part.

[DavidW]

That sure took a lot of thought on your part.

This is Horn Teacher at work--

[(poco) Sforzando]

OK, maybe this educational approach has reached its limit. But since I know all you guys love making lists of top 3's or whatever, let's do this as well for Ludwig van. Here I'm going to try a new approach:

Name your top Beethoven work in the following categories:

1-3. One work each from the early, middle, and late periods.
4-6. One work each from the piano sonatas, symphonies, and quartets.
7-9. Up to three other works from any other genre (chamber, choral, opera, etc.).

Duplications and overlaps allowed. It will be interesting to see if a concensus emerges, or even if I spelled concensus right. 

[Gabriel]

Today's choices:

1. Early: Cantata on the death of Emperor Joseph II.
2. Middle: Fidelio.
3. Late: Missa Solemnis.

4. Piano sonatas: op. 109.
5. Symphonies: op. 55.
6. Quartets: op. 130.

7. An die ferne Geliebte.
8. Piano concerto op. 37.
9. Piano trio op. 97.

[hornteacher]

This is Horn Teacher at work--

You made me giggle.   

[DavidW]

You made me giggle.  

tehehe  Oh let's see here...

1. Early: I think I can cheat here, it was composed at the very end of his early period and beginning of his middle period, as an early work I think the Kreutzer Sonata shines quite brightly.
2. Middle: The Third Symphony for being one of those watershed moments in musical history. 0:)
3. Late: Must it be? Op. 135 String Quartet.  It must be.

4. Piano sonatas: Op. 110.
5. Symphonies: Symphony #4.
6. Quartets: Op. 127.

7. Missa Solemnis.
8. Piano Concerto #4.
9. Archduke Trio.

Edit: (a) I learned what "other" means, also (b) I was trying to NOT reproduce other lists but I see that it's not the case, so this is a little more up my alley.

[Gurn Blanston]

Actually, Poco, this is harder than the first one...

1-3. One work each from the early, middle, and late periods.
4-6. One work each from the piano sonatas, symphonies, and quartets.
7-9. Up to three other works from any other genre (chamber, choral, opera, etc.).

1. String Quartet Op 18 #6 'La Malinconia'
2. Piano Sonata in f Op 57 'Appassionata'
3. Cello Sonata in C Op 102 #1

4. Piano Sonata in c Op 111
5. Symphony in Eb Op 55
6. Quartet in c# Op 131

7. Symphony in d Op 125
8. Song Cycle   "An die ferne Geliebte" Op 98
9. Piano Trio in Eb Op 70#2






----------------
Listening to:
Schönbrunn Ensemble - Hob 04 07 Divertimento in G for Flute, Violin & Cello 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[DavidW]

1. String Quartet Op 18 #6 'La Malinconia'
2. Piano Sonata in f Op 57 'Appassionata'
3. Cello Sonata in C Op 102 #1

I almost picked that cello sonata for my #7-9, so close.  I always thought the Appassionata was a guilty pleasure that I was supposed to keep to myself, but here you are boldy putting it on your tops middle era pic.

7. Symphony in d Op 125

Ha, I bet you haven't listened to that one in along time!

[Gurn Blanston]

I almost picked that cello sonata for my #7-9, so close.  I always thought the Appassionata was a guilty pleasure that I was supposed to keep to myself, but here you are boldy putting it on your tops middle era pic.

Ha, I bet you haven't listened to that one in along time!

Not since Sunday, at least. But the weekend's almost here...   Probably won't be Toscanini this week, maybe Hickox...



----------------
Listening to:
Schönbrunn Ensemble - Hob 04 09 Divertimento in G for Flute, Violin & Cello 3rd mvmt - Finale: Presto

[DavidW]

You know between us too and Gabriel we have the whole final three PSs!  Sweet!

[Gurn Blanston]

You know between us too and Gabriel we have the whole final three PSs!  Sweet!

I could make a box set out of just we three's selections and be happy for quite some time. Hmmm, not a bad idea.



----------------
Listening to:
Schönbrunn Ensemble - Hob 04 10 Divertimento in A for Flute, Violin & Cello 1st mvmt - Andante con espressione

[DavidW]

We can call it the Beethoven sampler.

[Dana]

OK, maybe this educational approach has reached its limit.

      I'm going to go, I just haven't had the time to sit down and actually think through the topic. Says the person who only had one hour of classes today. Oh well, I'll do it by Saturday, you have my word of honor!

[(poco) Sforzando]

      I'm going to go, I just haven't had the time to sit down and actually think through the topic. Says the person who only had one hour of classes today. Oh well, I'll do it by Saturday, you have my word of honor!

I look forward to it.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Actually, Poco, this is harder than the first one...

But actually, not much different ...

And please, folks, read the instructions for 7-9 again. The key word there is "other."

[Gabriel]

We can call it the Beethoven sampler.

A most excellent sampler!

But David, the Kreutzer sonata, an example of his early period? Hmmm...