Poll

What is your favorite kyrie?

Bach BWV 252
6 (21.4%)
Mozart k.427
6 (21.4%)
Beethoven Missa Solemnis
3 (10.7%)
Berliloz Requiem
1 (3.6%)
Brahms German Requiem
1 (3.6%)
Joe Green's Requiem
2 (7.1%)
Other?
9 (32.1%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Kyrie  (Read 13217 times)

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Mozart

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Kyrie
« on: June 07, 2007, 03:19:39 PM »
My vote (not surprisingly) goes to Mozart's rather unknown genius mass in c minor.

hornteacher

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 04:59:32 PM »
Gotta go with LvB.

Offline jochanaan

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 05:15:19 PM »
One from a work not even on the list:  Bruckner's E minor Mass.  One of the most hauntingly beautiful compositions ever--and that's not something I say without really meaning it! :D

Uh, Ein deutsches Requiem has no Kyrie, at least not in the recording I've got... ;)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

Mozart

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 06:06:25 PM »
One from a work not even on the list:  Bruckner's E minor Mass.  One of the most hauntingly beautiful compositions ever--and that's not something I say without really meaning it! :D

Uh, Ein deutsches Requiem has no Kyrie, at least not in the recording I've got... ;)

Hmmm I thought every mass had to have a kyrie?

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 06:22:02 PM »
Hmmm I thought every mass had to have a kyrie?

English masses usually come without a Kyrie (a tradition going back since the middle ages). As far as i know, the English are the only ones to do this.

Offline PSmith08

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 06:47:16 PM »
Hmmm I thought every mass had to have a kyrie?

The liturgy of the Mass (i.e., the actual religious ceremonies going on, not the music) has the Kyrie, following the penitential rite (Confiteor), but there is no requirement that it be set to music. Now, in Masses according to the 1975 (now 2000/2) Missale Romanum, there is a choice, with the Kyrie and penitential rite being one and the same. So, every Mass has a Kyrie, one way or another, but not necessarily one set to music.

A second for the Bruckner E minor Mass Kyrie, for the same reasons.

Offline jochanaan

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2007, 02:45:44 PM »
Hmmm I thought every mass had to have a kyrie?
But Brahms' German Requiem is not a Catholic Mass.  Brahms uses German Scriptures to create an entirely new Requiem text.

The German Requiem's first movement sings, "Selig sind, die da Leid tragen..."  Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.  (Matthew 5:4)  Brahms goes on to set various Scriptural texts, both canonical and apocryphal.  (As a Protestant Christian, I actually prefer these texts to the traditional Catholic Mass, especially the sixth movement's text that looks forward to the resurrection of all the blessed dead as described in Revelation.)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2007, 03:08:37 PM »
When Harnoncourt does it, my favorite is from Haydn's Missa in Tempore Belli "Paukenmesse." The sharp accents, the startlingly thunderous drums and slower than normal tempo give it a weight, solemnity and significance that's lacking in other versions I've heard. Harnoncourt relates it to the horror and pity of war far more than any other conductor.

Sarge
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 03:11:16 PM by Sergeant Rock »
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he was as f*cked-up as you are."
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Offline PSmith08

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2007, 03:10:13 PM »
But Brahms' German Requiem is not a Catholic Mass.  Brahms uses German Scriptures to create an entirely new Requiem text.

The German Requiem's first movement sings, "Selig sind, die da Leid tragen..."  Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.  (Matthew 5:4)  Brahms goes on to set various Scriptural texts, both canonical and apocryphal.  (As a Protestant Christian, I actually prefer these texts to the traditional Catholic Mass, especially the sixth movement's text that looks forward to the resurrection of all the blessed dead as described in Revelation.)

Well, Fauré's Requiem setting is nice, and very much along those lines, too. Without the Dies irae and the Confutatis maledictis, it concentrates more on the redemption and eternal rest bit. Still, I prefer my Mass to have a little fire along with the creamy parts.

Offline Anne

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2007, 05:25:59 PM »
One from a work not even on the list:  Bruckner's E minor Mass.  One of the most hauntingly beautiful compositions ever--and that's not something I say without really meaning it! :D

Uh, Ein deutsches Requiem has no Kyrie, at least not in the recording I've got... ;)

PSmith08 or Jochanaan, would you recommend a recording for the Bruckner E minor Mass?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 05:32:12 PM by Anne »

Steve

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2007, 06:47:11 PM »
My vote (not surprisingly) goes to Mozart's rather unknown genius mass in c minor.

The Bruckner is indeed hauntingly beautiful, but I take my hat off to Mozart on this one.  :)

Offline PSmith08

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2007, 07:25:22 PM »
PSmith08 or Jochanaan, would you recommend a recording for the Bruckner E minor Mass?

I don't see how you could go wrong with the Eugen Jochum recording of the three Masses. It has been a reference recording for quite a while. I, though, am about equally partial to Daniel Barenboim's 1970s recordings of Masses 2 and 3 on EMI. Helmuth Rilling's 1998 recording on Hänssler got some good press at the time, and is a pretty solid recording, too. I guess I am just a fan of Jochum's Bruckner, not only in the Masses, but also his recordings of the motets and the Te Deum.

So, to recap: Jochum would be my first choice, followed by Barenboim and Rilling; however, they're all pretty good and you could do worse than any of them.

Offline Anne

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2007, 04:00:47 AM »
Thank you.  Much appreciated.

Offline val

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2007, 02:32:10 AM »
Bach of course.

head-case

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2007, 08:27:08 AM »
Pretty useless poll, since what I would consider Mozart's finest Kyrie (from the Requiem) is not listed, neither are either of the Kyrie from Bach's mass in b-minor, and I don't think BWV 252 even has a Kyrie.   ???


« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 08:52:41 AM by head-case »

Offline Novi

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2007, 11:18:15 AM »
Pretty useless poll, since what I would consider Mozart's finest Kyrie (from the Requiem) is not listed, neither are either of the Kyrie from Bach's mass in b-minor, and I don't think BWV 252 even has a Kyrie.   ???




Maybe it was a typo and Mozart meant BMV232? ???

In which case, that gets my vote :).
Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den der heimlich lauschet.

Offline Norbeone

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2007, 11:47:07 AM »
Maybe it was a typo and Mozart meant BMV232? ???

In which case, that gets my vote :).

Yea was about to point that out.

And I choose the Bach too. It's one of my all time favourite movements and I think one of the greatest fugues (choral or not) ever written. So beautiful!

 ;D

head-case

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2007, 12:17:20 PM »
Yea was about to point that out.

And I choose the Bach too. It's one of my all time favourite movements and I think one of the greatest fugues (choral or not) ever written. So beautiful!

 ;D

The first or the second Kyrie from the mass in h?

karlhenning

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2007, 02:17:42 PM »
Might have voted for the Berlioz . . . but even more, from the Stravinsky Mass.

George

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Re: Kyrie
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2007, 02:22:27 PM »
I voted for other:





 ;D  ;D  ;D