Fair prices for music?

[Harry]

Let me put it this way, sales at my favourite classical Internet site, have gone down considerably, the latest figures I've got make me said. Bargain boxes, are a way to compensate, full price CD'S that do not sell, are sold for half or less within 6 months, or returned to the label itself. This happens more often. Stock that is not sold will be returned to the producer, that's a deal they make beforehand, trying to cut down loses. Downloading is at the root of the industries decline, but is not the sole cause.

[Novi]

I often see references to pricing in terms of budget, mid-priced, and full priced, but am never quite sure how much this means. Does £5, £10, and £15 sound about right?

[ChamberNut]

Well that $8 a cd for the average pricing of the Koopman set per cd is not that different from a fast food meal.  Even the poor eat fast food when they can eat bologna sandwiches and pasta at much lower price point(which is why we have health problems that we do but I digress).  So I don't think that reasonable pricing on cds is elitist or asking too much.  Heck 3 of those Koopman cds would buy you a taxi ride to your nearest airport.  The dollar is weak, we're not talking big bucks here.

Just to clarify, David.  I totally agree with you that $8 a CD is a great price, a wonderful low price.  That's something that I can afford.  However, I can't afford $20 or $25 full price discs.  If it is set at that price, then classical music becomes more and more unaffordable for the "Average Joe".

Mind you.....perhaps pop music is more the music for the "elite" now.  Want to go see a concert of the most popular names in music?  Get ready to spend $100 or more minimum, and that's not necessarily a great seat either.  While, I pay $53 for best seat in the house Loge ticket for a WSO concert.  Or $15 a ticket for an incredible night of Chamber Music by Winnipeg's top musicians! 

[DavidW]

Just to clarify, David.  I totally agree with you that $8 a CD is a great price, a wonderful low price.  That's something that I can afford.  However, I can't afford $20 or $25 full price discs.  If it is set at that price, then classical music becomes more and more unaffordable for the "Average Joe".

Mind you.....perhaps pop music is more the music for the "elite" now.  Want to go see a concert of the most popular names in music?  Get ready to spend $100 or more minimum, and that's not necessarily a great seat either.  While, I pay $53 for best seat in the house Loge ticket for a WSO concert.  Or $15 a ticket for an incredible night of Chamber Music by Winnipeg's top musicians! 

I don't think that's elite, it's just supply-demand.  If you can sell out a stadium at $10/ticket or $100/ticket, then what price point would you sell tickets at?  We're talking business here not a charity there's nothing inherently elitist about it.  Anyway that is a classic example of a luxury, you don't go to the concert that often, so you plurge a little when you go and enjoy the night out.

[The new erato]

Let me put it this way, sales at my favourite classical Internet site, have gone down considerably, the latest figures I've got make me said. Bargain boxes, are a way to compensate, full price CD'S that do not sell, are sold for half or less within 6 months, or returned to the label itself. This happens more often. Stock that is not sold will be returned to the producer, that's a deal they make beforehand, trying to cut down loses. Downloading is at the root of the industries decline, but is not the sole cause.

One can see from pricing of new issues (the new Verdi requiem from Pappano at 12 Euro for a double), and the speed with which various new issues ends up at sale price, or reissued by budget companies, it is clear all is not particularly well with the classical CD market.

[ChamberNut]

It seems to me, in general, that the CDs for the bigger names in classical music (composers and ensembles) tend to be lower priced than the "lesser known", more obscure.  Or is it just me? 

[DavidW]

It seems to me, in general, that the CDs for the bigger names in classical music (composers and ensembles) tend to be lower priced than the "lesser known", more obscure.  Or is it just me? 

Obscure composers tend to be recorded more on indie labels like hyperion and cpo, which do small runs and need to charge more for production costs.  That being said however, Brilliant and Naxos cover obscure composers well and they are bargain labels.

[71 dB]

People are not buying music as much as they used to.

Some people do certain things, other people do something different. Today some people spend their money on games, mobile phones, Blu-ray discs, PPV programs etc instead of music. Some other people still buy music. I don't play video games. I don't spend much money on cell phones (I have the cheapest Nokia).

[karlhenning]

Obscure composers tend to be recorded more on indie labels like hyperion and cpo, which do small runs and need to charge more for production costs.  That being said however, Brilliant and Naxos cover obscure composers well and they are bargain labels.

What fraction of the Brilliant catalogue is reissue?

Naxos operates under a different model;  flat fee for performers, no royalties per se.

[DarkAngel]

When people complain about how expensive CDs are........

Just remember average CDs cost the same today $15 as they did 25 years ago when they first came out.
I remember buying many classical Cds for $15 back in mid 1980s

Adjusted for inflation they should sell for $30+ today, so the fact they haven't gone up in price means they are really much cheaper today
(unless your income hasn't gone up in 25 years  )

[DavidW]

Some people do certain things, other people do something different. Today some people spend their money on games, mobile phones, Blu-ray discs, PPV programs etc instead of music. Some other people still buy music. I don't play video games. I don't spend much money on cell phones (I have the cheapest Nokia).

I'm not sure what your point is, that's always been true that people also buy other things, and is not really an explanation for the decline in cd sales.

[DavidW]

What fraction of the Brilliant catalogue is reissue?

Naxos operates under a different model;  flat fee for performers, no royalties per se.

On the surface it looks like not even 1/2, but I bet many of those artists that nobody knows were recorded before on small labels that nobody cares about.  Not every reissue will be Jochum's Bruckner you know?  But even if Brilliant does 2/3 reissues, that 1/3 of genuinely new recordings still completely outdo the competition for # of new interesting releases, # of those sold, and price point.  How many record labels do you know are working on a Frescobaldi edition?  Or have recorded the complete baryton works of Haydn?

I don't know if Brilliant Classics shuns royalties like Naxos does, but in an orchestra so much would go to the conductor and so little to the actual performers that it seems like it wouldn't matter that much in the long run.  Performers themselves (and not conductors) rarely get rich off of classical recordings even if they signed for a major record label like EMI, DG etc

[DavidW]

When people complain about how expensive CDs are........

Just remember average CDs cost the same today $15 as they did 25 years ago when they first came out.
I remember buying many classical Cds for $15 back in mid 1980s

Adjusted for inflation they should sell for $30+ today, so the fact they haven't gone up in price means they are really much cheaper today
(unless your income hasn't gone up in 25 years  )

Yeah but the RIAA was sued over that and lost.  They were fixing the price to gouge their customers.  One of the several steps they've taken to piss off their customer base as much as they could.

[Todd]

Before determining the "fair" price for a CD, wouldn't it be nice to know how much money is being made by all parties in the chain?  Performers, engineers and other technical folks, distribution folks, record company execs and other employees, retailers, others - all must be compensated from the revenue generated from CD and other music sales.  Some may get paid too much (by someone's standard), and others not enough, but without understanding costs and how much profit there actually is, the concept of a fair price is a bit amorphous. 

I expect to pay for music, and all other luxury items.  And make no mistake, recorded music is a luxury item.  I don't think twice about spending $20 for a CD if it's music I want by performers that interest me - and it's new.  (Full price, decades old recordings are annoying, and I generally don't buy them.)  I also like buying cheap CDs in box sets.  But then I'll also have a different set of expectations.  And no matter what I buy, I don't care if someone else is making money - in fact, I rather expect someone to.

Recordings are actually quite cheap, at least in the US.  Indeed, extending on DarkAngel's argument about inflation, people should compare prices today to what 78s cost six and seven and more decades ago.  Recordings were much more expensive in the past.  Whiners complain about how expensive CDs are, and presumably some twirps even complain about pricey downloads, but in order for the products to be around, the people who make them need to make money.  Free or break even recordings will result in no choice in the long run.  That's bad. 

[71 dB]

I'm not sure what your point is, that's always been true that people also buy other things, and is not really an explanation for the decline in cd sales.

My point is that people who spend their money on video games and cell phones aren't usually much into classical music, are they? I mean, we lovers of classical music buy tons of CDs, don't we? Have the sales figures of Naxos declined? I don't think so.

[karlhenning]

My point is that people who spend their money on video games and cell phones aren't usually much into classical music, are they?

Your 'contrast' between cell phones and classical music isn't cutting it.

[71 dB]

Your 'contrast' between cell phones and classical music isn't cutting it.

You are right, video games work better.

[DavidW]

You are right, video games work better.

No the price has actually dropped over the years, nes games used to be really expensive.

[ChamberNut]

No the price has actually dropped over the years, nes games used to be really expensive.

Sega Genesis games are really affordable now. 

[DavidW]

Sega Genesis games are really affordable now. 

Well you know what I mean!  ps3/360/wii vs nes/genesis games!

Stinker.