Repeating Eugene Onegin's Mistake

[Scarpia]

The point of a relationship is to lead to a union which is the prerequisite for building a family. Your own selfish personal whims need not apply.

That seems like a rather narrow definition of a relationship, but I will leave it to you and Papageno to battle it out.  I don't have the stomach for it.

[karlhenning]

That seems like a rather narrow definition of a relationship . . .

Gosh, and it certainly is not a prerequisite for any of the relationships I maintain on a daily basis at the office . . . .

[Josquin des Prez]

That seems like a rather narrow definition of a relationship, but I will leave it to you and Papageno to battle it out.  I don't have the stomach for it.

I assumed he was talking about a romantic relationship. If i have to be honest i didn't even bother to see what this thread was about. I'm a binge troller.

[greg]

Quote from: Crazy guy
On the subway today, a man came up to me to start a conversation. He made small talk, a lonely man talking about the weather and other things. I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head hurt from his banality. I almost didn't notice it had happened, but I suddenly threw up all over him. He was not pleased, and I couldn't stop laughing.

Where is this from? This is great! 
Luckily that can't really happen, or else I would've thrown up on a few customers at work that have tried to make small talk without having anything really interesting to say.

[DavidW]

I assumed he was talking a romantic relationship.

I think that's what Karl meant too.

[DavidW]

Where is this from? This is great! 
Luckily that can't really happen, or else I would've thrown up on a few customers at work that have tried to make small talk without having anything really interesting to say.

The serial killer from the movie Seven Greg, you're scaring me now...

[Papageno]

The point of a relationship is to lead to a union which is the prerequisite for building a family. Your own selfish personal whims need not apply.

(Sighs) And what my dear friend is the point of a family?  I return and say that it is to help one another.

[Scarpia]

(Sighs) And what my dear friend is the point of a family?  I return and say that it is to help one another.

Which brings us around to the point, who here believes you have ever been motivated by the desire to help someone?  Hands?

[Papageno]

Which brings us around to the point, who here believes you have ever been motivated by the desire to help someone?  Hands?

You're going to tell me if I've unconditionally helped someone, what, from there?  Hah!
I've done it in a number of instances, varying from big to small, but not yet as big as I wish.
My motivation is to help people, that's the reason of my being, that's the reason of my work.

[Herman]

OK, tell you what. If you'd post a little less about these silly romantic self-involved non-adventures of yours, we'd all be greatly helped. And you, too.

[Mozart]

People often misjudge the intentions of others.

[Papageno]

OK, tell you what. If you'd post a little less about these silly romantic self-involved non-adventures of yours, we'd all be greatly helped. And you, too.

Haha, "non-adventures", are you referring to my obsession with ideal beauty?

Do you want me to re-mould you, Herman?  With such obstinacy as yours it would be quite an arduous undertaking.

[Harpo]

, I spoke to her very kindly and appeared concerned.....

  I should have taken that girl and reformed her into a better person, who will do that for her now, probably no one.  Merely out of unconditional love (the love of a saint) I could have changed her path into a profound one, ah what errors I have made...

If you were faking concern, then that was a dishonest relationship.

Most people would (or should) run the other way if they thought you wanted to reform or mold them. That implies that you know better than they, and they have  erred. The best way to help someone is unconditional love,which means full acceptance of the person the way she is now, not as you think she should be. What if I told you that you must be an automobile mechanic, that if you are not,then you are defective and inferior?

[Papageno]

What if I told you that you must be an automobile mechanic, that if you are not,then you are defective and inferior?

Hume first talked about this: Quality isn't entirely subjective; what makes Bach or Mozart better than Grieg?  Bach and Mozart's work is objectively better than that of Grieg.  Returning to Kant; one must have the appropriate education to appreciate quality.
Having said that, the girl in question had planned to make a make-up artist of herself, I saw that and should have tried my hand in helping her to an alternative.

[Harpo]

Hume first talked about this: Quality isn't entirely subjective; what makes Bach or Mozart better than Grieg?  Bach and Mozart's work is objectively better than that of Grieg.  Returning to Kant; one must have the appropriate education to appreciate quality.
Having said that, the girl in question had planned to make a make-up artist of herself, I saw that and should have tried my hand in helping her to an alternative.

The greatest gift you can give someone is unconditional acceptance. I don't know if you're familiar with the late children's TV show creator Fred Rogers, but a frequent message he gave the kids was "I like you just the way you are."  That's important for kids to hear, makes them more confident and creative adults. Nice for grownups to hear,too.

[greg]

The greatest gift you can give someone is unconditional acceptance. I don't know if you're familiar with the late children's TV show creator Fred Rogers, but a frequent message he gave the kids was "I like you just the way you are."  That's important for kids to hear, makes them more confident and creative adults. Nice for grownups to hear,too.

lol... Mr.Rogers. Reminds me of something... ah, never mind, I won't mention it because it's very inappropriate. 

anyways, that sounds like a good message sometimes... i wouldn't say that to a budding serial killer, though. 

[Mozart]

In order to change someone, you need a certain amount of subtlety, because if you tell someone they are wrong, they will become defensive. You kind of have to blow wind at a sail, and it will change direction on its own. You can't even take any credit for it.


I was reading some problems people where having, and asking advice, and its amazing how the advisers worked. The never told the person what to do, the person themself always figured out on their own the solution. And I thought to myself, wow that is so much more powerful than just directly giving someone advice. Maybe I should ask them for advice about giving advice.

[Papageno]

The greatest gift you can give someone is unconditional acceptance. I don't know if you're familiar with the late children's TV show creator Fred Rogers, but a frequent message he gave the kids was "I like you just the way you are."  That's important for kids to hear, makes them more confident and creative adults. Nice for grownups to hear,too.

Of course, I would have to become her good friend and inevitably (good) lover and would tell her, "All that is lovely darling but let me show you this string quartet I've been listening to, or this Flaubert I've been reading."  That is perhaps how I would begin to re-mould her.
"I like you for just who you are"?  That isn't unconditional love, Susan-darling - because you motivate me to be drawn by "the way that she is", some elements that she possesses which attract me to her.  Unconditional love is: she doesn't have anything of my fancy, but I'll nevertheless help her.  Love is often confused with emotions (which is in fact erôs), love is solely based on good conduct.

The only thing I need to do now is to pretend I'm a christian, so that the church will canonise me.

[Herman]

Love is often confused with emotions (which is in fact erôs), love is solely based on good conduct.

[Harpo]

lol... Mr.Rogers. Reminds me of something... ah, never mind, I won't mention it because it's very inappropriate.  

anyways, that sounds like a good message sometimes... i wouldn't say that to a budding serial killer, though.  

I never particularly liked watching Mr. Rogers, but I liked his affirming messages.

No, of course you would not affirm a pathological person, but in general, support and affirmation are better than rigid judgment and easy answers. Especially with a child. It's not always easy. I have a friend who is obviously an alcoholic. I'm always tempted to just say "Stop drinking ", and have given her the names of shrinks and health hints, but that doesn't help. Nothing does. Change has to come from within her