Author Topic: Beethoven in Period Performances  (Read 235369 times)

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DavidW

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #800 on: March 16, 2014, 05:23:09 PM »
That is confusing since they're not HIPsters.  Do traditionalists performing on period instruments automatically make a performance period style?

btw I'm not knocking the ability of those amazing musicians.  I'm just scratching my head.

Offline milk

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #801 on: March 16, 2014, 05:30:11 PM »
Now, that looks interesting. And we needed another Archduke/Ghost recording too! :D  But seriously, the players must balance that out, I don't know the pianist, but Faust and Queyras are tops. It would promote less confusion if they would have said 'pianoforte'. Otherwise I would have been scratching my head, since Faust and Queyras go both ways (so to speak). Thanks for heading that off. :)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #802 on: March 16, 2014, 05:35:02 PM »
That is confusing since they're not HIPsters.  Do traditionalists performing on period instruments automatically make a performance period style?

btw I'm not knocking the ability of those amazing musicians.  I'm just scratching my head.

Queyras is. He does a great Haydn and Vivaldi (IIRC)  too, both on Baroque cello and in period style. He is a switch hitter, as is Faust.

The lines are getting blurred, I think. In any case, PI doesn't make HIP anymore than MI can really be HIP, IMO.   

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:36:59 PM by Gurn Blanston »
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #803 on: March 16, 2014, 05:39:42 PM »
Queyras is. He does a great Haydn and Vivaldi (IIRC)  too, both on Baroque cello and in period style. He is a switch hitter, as is Faust.

The lines are getting blurred, I think. In any case, PI doesn't make HIP anymore than MI can really be HIP, IMO.   

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Yes, I thought I remembered this one:



Despite being off topic, still, goes to his cred, your honor...  :)

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Offline milk

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #804 on: March 16, 2014, 05:41:47 PM »
That is confusing since they're not HIPsters.  Do traditionalists performing on period instruments automatically make a performance period style?

btw I'm not knocking the ability of those amazing musicians.  I'm just scratching my head.
I just realized that I have a HIP recording of Queyras playing Beethoven's #3 and 5 trios with Staier and Sepec. I see that Melnikov released a HIP Brahms recording. Somewhere in the info for this Beethoven release it says that the fortepiano is owned by Melnikov. I didn't know Faust had any HIP recordings. As Gurn said, they "go both ways (so to speak)."   
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:44:26 PM by milk »

DavidW

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #805 on: March 16, 2014, 06:32:05 PM »
I'm astonished!  Those are flexible musicians.  I'm also an idiot to not recognize a recording that I know full well.  I guess I always thought if it as Staier and friends.

Offline North Star

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #806 on: March 16, 2014, 10:15:39 PM »
They're all HIPsters, but can play on modern instruments too - old or new music. Queyras' solo Bach is played on a cello with a modern setup because it was connected with his project of commissioning modern composers to write preludes to be played before each suite. Faust's solo violin Bach is PI.
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Offline Geo Dude

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #807 on: June 11, 2014, 06:31:22 PM »
Any reasonably in print recordings of the violin sonatas to complement the Immerseel/Schroeder set?

Offline (poco) Sforzando

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #808 on: November 11, 2015, 06:31:05 AM »
Do the Diabelli Variations come anywhere close to the Goldberg Variations in terms of musical genius in anyone's opinion?

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #809 on: November 11, 2015, 07:03:43 AM »
The Goldbergs are more "systematic" and maybe technically more impressive (all those canons, invention-like free counterpoint and stuff) but for me the Diabellis are at least as inventive in their way and more fun. (I was not completely convinced by the only "period" Diabellis (Staier's) I have heard, though.)
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #810 on: November 11, 2015, 08:10:43 AM »
Is there anything serious and interesting in common between the Goldbergs and Diabellies.  I mean, I know they both have the same number of tracks, but apart from that is there anything else?

I remember someone saying to me that Beethoven was influenced by the Goldberg variations, but I can't remember the argument.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:12:30 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #811 on: November 11, 2015, 09:07:07 AM »
The Diabellis should have 2 more tracks: Theme + 33 Variations vs. Aria - 30 Variations - Aria da capo.
It seems that Beethoven knew the Goldberg variations and maybe he came up with such a large number to claim a similar status for his work. It is also often said that Var. 31 refers to GBV 25.

Lately it occurred to me that the variations in op.109 could already have been an hommage to the GBV because of the sarabande-like theme (and the literal dacapo in the end)
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kishnevi

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #812 on: November 11, 2015, 06:29:50 PM »
The Goldbergs are more "systematic" and maybe technically more impressive (all those canons, invention-like free counterpoint and stuff) but for me the Diabellis are at least as inventive in their way and more fun. (I was not completely convinced by the only "period" Diabellis (Staier's) I have heard, though.)

You might try Schiff's ECM dual recording....one on a period instrument, the other on a modern.

Offline milk

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #813 on: November 12, 2015, 04:19:37 AM »
You might try Schiff's ECM dual recording....one on a period instrument, the other on a modern.
Gary Cooper is good also.

Offline JCBuckley

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #814 on: November 12, 2015, 08:03:26 AM »
Lately it occurred to me that the variations in op.109 could already have been an hommage to the GBV because of the sarabande-like theme (and the literal dacapo in the end)

Do you know Jeremy Denk's recording of the Goldbergs? In lieu of sleeve-notes it has an excellent DVD of Denk talking about the music - he has interesting things to say about the relationship between the GBV and the late Beethoven piano music.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #815 on: November 12, 2015, 08:19:12 AM »
No, I don't know this one and it does sound interesting, thanks! Although I am not really in the market for another GBV recording on piano... there is a teaser on ytube, but that's only about Bach...
The GBV must have been known among the connoisseurs in the early 19th century, not only among composers like Beethoven who were especially interested in Bach. There is a "Kapellmeister Kreisler" story by E.T.A. Hoffmann where Kreisler is asked to play the GBV for a bourgeois audience and he enters some trance-like state and keeps going for hours or so, forgetting the audience [most of them actually left becasue they were overtaxed by the music not quite as entertaining as they had expected] and phantasizing more and more new variations. EDIT: This is apparently the first piece in the so-called "Kreisleriana": "Johannes Kreisler's, des Kapellmeisters musikalische Leiden" (The musical sufferings of Johannes Kreisler, master of music)

I am not really looking for another DV either, although I had the Schiff on my radar already when it came out, I later decided that a dozen or so recordings of the piece was enough for the time being. (I also found the two discs I have from Schiff's Beethoven sonatas (opp.10,13,27,28) not completely convincing; I found his lectures (they were on the Guardian website several years ago) more interesting than the recordings...)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 09:14:35 AM by Jo498 »
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Florestan

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #816 on: November 12, 2015, 08:34:18 AM »
There is a "Kapellmeister Kreisler" story by E.T.A. Hoffmann where Kreisler is asked to play the GBV for a bourgeois audience and he enters some trance-like state and keeps going for hours or so, forgetting the audience and phantasizing more and more new variations.

Hah!

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In 1921, at age 17, [Rudolf Serkin] made his Berlin debut performing in [Adolf] Busch's ensemble as the keyboard soloist in the Brandenburg Concerto no. 5. At the end of the concert, Busch told Serkin to play an encore to the enthusiastic audience. Serkin later reported that he asked Busch, "What shall I play?" and Busch "as a joke" told him to play The Goldberg Variations "and I took him seriously. When I finished there were only four people left: Adolf Busch, Artur Schnabel, Alfred Einstein and me."[2]
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #817 on: November 12, 2015, 08:54:08 AM »
That Serkin story underscores the importance of knowing with whom you're joking . . . .
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #818 on: November 12, 2015, 09:16:22 AM »
That Serkin story underscores the importance of knowing with whom you're joking . . . .

I would instantly consent to my son´s marrying any girl he pleases on the condition she plays the Goldberg Variations as encore after her debut recital.  :D
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Beethoven in Period Performances
« Reply #819 on: November 12, 2015, 09:29:59 AM »
The "Farewell" Encore . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot