Beethoven in Period Performances

Started by Que, April 07, 2007, 07:34:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: Rod Corkin on September 20, 2008, 02:43:08 PM
I reviewed Linda Nicholson's CD at my site ages ago. I'll provide GMG with a more concise analysis - it's a pile of crap.
I heard the sample he provided and can verify, the technical aspects are a disaster.

Rod Corkin

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 20, 2008, 07:58:26 PM
I heard the sample he provided and can verify, the technical aspects are a disaster.
The performances are lame beyond all imagination throughout the whole CD. The sound is so close-miked there is no real differentiation between loud and soft. A great pity because the fortepiano sounds decent. I played my recording once and almost threw it out of the window, I wouldn't even give it away, it's that bad. Packaging is nice though...  ::)
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: Rod Corkin on September 21, 2008, 01:16:35 AM
The performances are lame beyond all imagination throughout the whole CD. The sound is so close-miked there is no real differentiation between loud and soft. A great pity because the fortepiano sounds decent. I played my recording once and almost threw it out of the window, I wouldn't even give it away, it's that bad. Packaging is nice though...  ::)
It would make a lovely cup holder!  ::)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 21, 2008, 01:05:52 PM
It would make a lovely cup holder!  ::)

This is now become irritating since I posted on the recording under discussion -  >:(  Are you & Rod the same person, roomates, or married?  ;)  :)

I bought this disc based an an absolutely superlative review from Fanfare (link already given previously) - but, to get comments based on extremes of the Bell-shaped curve obviously bring into question 'who' may be correct, i.e. a presumably professional reviewer (who I cannot verify) or two obvious 'friends'?  I don't know, but I do not feel that others should be 'turned off' to at least listenting to some tracts of these recordings on a good stereo system.

As a result of these derogatory posts, I again re-listened to this CD (re: Beethoven - Bagatelles - Nicholson), and agree that the 'miking' is indeed close-in, but I actually prefer this preference for earlier keyboard instruments, so I guess just a personal preference - I'm not that familiar w/ the alternative recordings whether w/ a modern piano (or a fortepiano - not sure if other options are available w/ this instrument); this is my problem until listening to mutlitple other recordings of these works.

My bottom line is that when reviews end up at the opposite end of the evaluation spectrum, then a perception issue exists - who's correct?  In that situation, I would suggest doing some personal listening and make a decision - don't reject this disc based on these exaggerated comments - try to take a listen and make a decision based on your own preferences!  :)

Sorin Eushayson

Well, I'm glad you're able to get some enjoyment out of it, SonicMan.  I urge the potential buyer to listen to some samples of it here before they buy it, though... My two cents.  ;)

Que

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 21, 2008, 04:25:49 PM
Well, I'm glad you're able to get some enjoyment out of it, SonicMan.  I urge the potential buyer to listen to some samples of it here before they buy it, though... My two cents.  ;)

To my surprise, that site allows samples to be linked! :)

So:

[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://cdn.classicsonline.com/preview/ACT/4015023241800_01_01.part.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://cdn.classicsonline.com/preview/ACT/4015023241800_01_07.part.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://cdn.classicsonline.com/preview/ACT/4015023241800_01_19.part.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://cdn.classicsonline.com/preview/ACT/4015023241800_01_20.part.mp3[/mp3]

Q

Rod Corkin

#446
Quote from: SonicMan on September 21, 2008, 03:06:36 PM
This is now become irritating since I posted on the recording under discussion -  >:(  Are you & Rod the same person, roomates, or married?  ;)  :)
If someone agrees with me it does not mean that we are married or co-habiting or that I am posting under two identities. I'm a Beethoven fortepiano superfan but these performances have about as much life in them as a wet weekend in Bognor. Compare Op33 and Op119 with Melvyn Tan's recording of the same and you'll get my point. Anyway I've said all I'm going to say on the matter, if you like it you like it.
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/classicalmusicmayhem/

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: Rod Corkin on September 22, 2008, 02:07:50 AM
If someone agrees with me it does not mean that we are married or co-habiting or that I am posting under two identities...
Trust me, if Rod and I were roommates one of us would end up killing the other eventually!  :P

SonicMan46

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 22, 2008, 02:20:10 AM
Trust me, if Rod and I were roommates one of us would end up killing the other eventually!  :P

LOL!  ;D  Well, I did put in a winky -  ;)  Thanks for the comments - Dave  :)

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on September 22, 2008, 02:20:10 AM
Trust me, if Rod and I were roommates one of us would end up killing the other eventually!  :P


Hmmmm . . . .
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Brian

Quote from: Que on September 20, 2008, 01:06:15 AM
Recommended posts! :)

Q

Honestly, though, to bypass the whole debate ... I just don't need a CD with Fur Elise on it. If I hear that thing one more time my entire life, I may jump off the nearest tall building.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Brian on September 22, 2008, 09:41:20 PM
I just don't need a CD with Fur Elise on it. If I hear that thing one more time my entire life, I may jump off the nearest tall building.

The tune wouldn't, maybe, get stuck in your head if someone mentioned that it might get stuck in your head if someone mentioned it, would it?



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Brian

Inbox cleared. :)

Quote from: donwyn on September 23, 2008, 04:52:52 PM
The tune wouldn't, maybe, get stuck in your head if someone mentioned that it might get stuck in your head if someone mentioned it, would it?
Not while I'm listening to a John Denver CD.  ;D

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Brian on September 23, 2008, 04:56:40 PM
Not while I'm listening to a John Denver CD.  ;D

Ah, John Denver. No contest! ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: donwyn on September 23, 2008, 05:03:40 PM
Ah, John Denver. No contest! ;D

Then you might be more likely to crash your private plane rather than jump off the nearest tall building.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Sforzando on September 24, 2008, 08:18:59 AM
Then you might be more likely to crash your private plane rather than jump off the nearest tall building.

Note to self: no John Denver while flying.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Bunny

I just received my copy of Brautigam's latest volume in his Beethoven Sonata cycle, and I am very happy with what I received.  The Waldstein is the showstopper, but the rest of the cd is also excellent. 


adamdavid80

Does anyone know anything about Hogwood's cycle on period instruments of the symphonies?

Or a recommended period instrument version?
Hardly any of us expects life to be completely fair; but for Eric, it's personal.

- Karl Henning

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 22, 2008, 09:46:01 AM
Does anyone know anything about Hogwood's cycle on period instruments of the symphonies?

Or a recommended period instrument version?
I didn't think Hogwood's was all that great.  As I've noted elsewhere, it's like he fed the scores into a music machine and out popped a symphony cycle.  I thought Gardiner's, Norrington's, and the Hanover Band's were all much better.  I suppose if I had to choose between them I'd pick Norrington's, though he's decided to ruin the Ninth by taking the March at Grave (Hogwood and the Hanover Band do this as well; Gardiner doesn't).  There's also Immerseel's cycle, the samples of which I've heard sound a bit on the bland side...  Unfortunately there's really no definitive HIP Beethoven cycle at the moment.  I'm sure others will have more to say.  Hope this helped.

M forever

Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 22, 2008, 09:46:01 AM
Does anyone know anything about Hogwood's cycle on period instruments of the symphonies?

Or a recommended period instrument version?

Overall, I think Hogwood's may be the most interesting Beethoven cycle on period instruments. There is nothing "popped out of a machine" about it. He takes a different approach to every symphony rather than a single, one-size-fits-all approach like most others do. He also explores the circumstances of each symphony's first public performance as far as the numbers of players are concerned. Which means that he actually plays those symphonies, like the 9th, which were premiered with doubled winds, with correspondingly doubled winds and large string sections. His cycle is the least routined, most workshop like, the most explorative in spirit and attitude which makes it so refreshing.
If any period Beethoven cycle ever got "popped out of a machine", it is definitely Gardiner's which is surprisingly, and, given Gardiner's excellent and very nuanced performances of Mozart symphonies and other late 18th century repertoire, disappointly stiff and mechanical, polished and lacking in musical depth and nuance. It doesn't really have much to do with period performance or exploring historical performance practice. It just happens to be played on old instuments, but it is so streamlined and lacking in character that it is really a completely superfluous contribution.
Norrington's cycle with the London Classical Players, on the other hand, is very refreshing and provocative. Unlike Hogwood, whose focus is on historical instruments, playing techniques and performance conditions whose exploration is at his centre of attention, Norrington approaches the music from a decidedly esthetical point of view. The "historical" part of his approach is not so much the instruments and playing techniques, but the historical perspective of the esthetical and ethical substance of the music. He sees the music as first and foremost wanting to make public and dramatic statements, and he explores the theatralic and rhetoric aspects of the music propbably more radically than anyone else. This is a very thought-provoking and "bold" Beethoven cycle which is also realized on a technically very high level. Norrington understands that Beethoven's instrumentation, his use of orchestral color, is central to his rhetoric esthetic. Definitely very worth hearing.
I haven't heard Immerseel's recordings, but after I heard his bland and mechanical Schubert symphonies, I am not at all interested to. The Hanover Band cycle is just substandard in every respect, a byproduct of the times when there were too many musicians in London running around with period instruments because there were too many recordings made of everything by everyone on period insturments.
Then there is also Brüggen's cycle which is simply grotesque because he plays everything on baroque instruments with baroque playing techniques. A bad and sad example for how the whole HIP thing could just go too far and too wrong.