Beethoven in Period Performances

Started by Que, April 07, 2007, 07:34:50 AM

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FideLeo

Quote from: david-jw on January 20, 2011, 12:58:46 AM

The rougher sound and dark timbre made the first movement even more dramatic.


Tan usually records on his Nanette Streicher copy for things written after 1800.  However for Beethoven, Conrad Graf (both originals and copies) seem more in demand in period instrument recordings.  Try the great Adagio movement from Op. 110 as played on a Graf replica by Ronald Brautigam below and see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/v/jxowBWU-UNU



   

HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

david-jw


SonicMan46

Today, I re-listened to the PI discs of the recording discussed below - motivated by some recent discussion in Gurn's 'classical thread' - this is an older combo post placed in the 'old instruments' thread - BOTTOM LINE - if you're interested in LvB chamber works performed in a potential style from his times, this is a nice package @ a good price to contemplate -  :D

QuoteBeethoven, LV - Cello Works w/ Lambert Orkis on a Steinway piano and 3 different fortepianos (that span the eras that these works were written) & David Hardy on a Carlo Testore 1694 cello strung w/ steel & with gut strings; a recommendation of Brian (thanks, buddy!) - on the Dorian label.

Four (4) discs in a fold-out wallet w/ a 24 page booklet; the cello/keyboard works played both on modern instruments and on period ones - I'm playing the discs of the different instruments back-to-back; now on the second set - will deserve a longer post in the 'old instrument' thread, but really a unique approach to the issue of works played on modern vs. period instruments - enjoying!  :D  P.S. - $25 from Dorian!


Above is a post that I just left in the 'listening thread' that warrants further discussion here for those who may be interested not only in Beethoven's Cello Works but also in the question of period vs. modern instrument performances; this is a unique offering by Dorian of two experienced performers on their respective instruments, i.e. keyboard & cello playing these compositions w/ both a modern and period approach, hence the need for 4 discs (at really a bargain price!).

The cello used in these recordings was made by Carlo Giuseppe Testore in 1694 out of Milan, Italy; the instrument was strung w/ steel strings for the modern interpretations, and w/ gut strings for the period recordings; the gut strings were made by Damian Dlugolecki (Website HERE).  Not sure if different bows and/or bowing techniques were used?

The pianos varied; a Steinway Model C recently manufactured in Hamburg, Germany was used for the modern recordings, while three (3) different fortepianos were played for the period performances; these 'matched' the time periods of the compositions of the pieces and included a Wolf-Dulcken, Wolf-Streicher, & a Regier 'Grafendorfer'; the liner notes go into considerable detail on the features and differences of these various fortepianos, and the reasons that Orkis chose one over the other in the period performances; he also discussed the advantages and limitations (and the interaction w/ the cello) of the various selection of instruments.  A listing of the works on Dorian HERE:)

FideLeo

The composer's own instruments now in the Bonn Beethoven-Haus collection were used for this recording. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/4x47tkbL2WQ
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

mc ukrneal

Some HIP Beethoven!

I'm not sure where this should go (and maybe this is old news), but this seemed to be the best place: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Channel/CCSSA29110


Excerpt: "Gary Cooper: "The decision to use a historic Viennese instrument for this recording - built in the very year Beethoven completed his Diabelli Variations – is, in one sense, self-explanatory. Newly & magnificently restored by Edwin Beunk, the Walter und Sohn grand piano featured here is both a beautiful & charming instrument. In approaching the timeless, expansive sound world of Beethoven's late, great works, any piano is constantly tested; historic instruments not far off two hundred years old additionally so! This is the first commercial recording, to my knowledge, which attempts to place this particular masterpiece firmly in the sound-world of the early 1820s, when it was conceived and first played."
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

FideLeo

Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 16, 2011, 05:08:35 AM
This is the first commercial recording, to my knowledge, which attempts to place this particular masterpiece firmly in the sound-world of the early 1820s, when it was conceived and first played."

That's Cooper's shoptalk; Paul Komen recorded the Diabelli and 6 Bagatelles on an original 1824 Graf fortepiano in 2003 (released on the Ars musici label in 2004).  The recording is currently OOP, however.

[asin]B000935U76[/asin]

http://www.youtube.com/v/XYwd0inkzyQ



HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Leo K.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 16, 2011, 05:08:35 AM
Some HIP Beethoven!

I'm not sure where this should go (and maybe this is old news), but this seemed to be the best place: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Channel/CCSSA29110


Excerpt: "Gary Cooper: "The decision to use a historic Viennese instrument for this recording - built in the very year Beethoven completed his Diabelli Variations – is, in one sense, self-explanatory. Newly & magnificently restored by Edwin Beunk, the Walter und Sohn grand piano featured here is both a beautiful & charming instrument. In approaching the timeless, expansive sound world of Beethoven's late, great works, any piano is constantly tested; historic instruments not far off two hundred years old additionally so! This is the first commercial recording, to my knowledge, which attempts to place this particular masterpiece firmly in the sound-world of the early 1820s, when it was conceived and first played."

I just bought this last week, and I'm very impressed.


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K on March 18, 2011, 12:53:17 PM
I just bought this last week, and I'm very impressed.

Ah, good to hear from someone finally who has this. I've been reading the discussions, but didn't want to be the first to jump off the metaphorical cliff.  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Leo K.

#528
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on March 18, 2011, 01:08:46 PM



Ah, good to hear from someone finally who has this. I've been reading the discussions, but didn't want to be the first to jump off the metaphorical cliff.  :)

8)

Listening to the beautiful, resonate tone of the pianoforte in this recording is so wonderful because of the nuance and skill of Cooper! This recording has brought me back, full tilt, into Beethoven's late period again after a long time, and it sure feels good to be back. The Diabelli Variations is a work I'm still getting to know, and now that I've found a pianoforte recording I'm excited to jump into this work, and finally learn what these variations are about, and explore the incredible journey that is this piece.

I just LOVE the sound of the pianoforte and this recording captures it's sound wonderfully.



SonicMan46

Hmmm - Guys - I just have the Diabelli Variations on a modern piano and only one version; own Gary Cooper in other performances (and like him) - may have to add this one to my 'wish list'!   :D

P.S. Gurn - I'm assuming that you own and enjoy the Cooper performances?  Dave  :)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on March 20, 2011, 02:40:21 PM
Hmmm - Guys - I just have the Diabelli Variations on a modern piano and only one version; own Gary Cooper in other performances (and like him) - may have to add this one to my 'wish list'!   :D

P.S. Gurn - I'm assuming that you own and enjoy the Cooper performances?  Dave  :)

Dave,
No,
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on March 18, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
Ah, good to hear from someone finally who has this. I've been reading the discussions, but didn't want to be the first to jump off the metaphorical cliff.  :)

is pretty much my situation right now. I know Cooper's playing from his Mozart with Podger, but that's about it. However, since I have NO pianoforte performance of the Diabelli's, let alone a good one  (:D ), it's a no brainer for me. Next fiscal period.  0:)

8)

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Scarpia

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on March 20, 2011, 02:53:13 PM
Dave,
No,
is pretty much my situation right now. I know Cooper's playing from his Mozart with Podger, but that's about it. However, since I have NO pianoforte performance of the Diabelli's, let alone a good one  (:D ), it's a no brainer for me. Next fiscal period.  0:)

8)

You must also know Cooper from this super-awesome recording!

[asin]B00004WMX7[/asin]

If not you must turn in your membership card to the American Society of HIP Lunatics!
:D

SonicMan46

Well, I was quite curious about those Cooper performances of the Diabelli Variations - the CD price was a little steep, so decided on a MP3 download from Amazon - transferred to my iPod and now listening on my den stereo system - will report back later!  :D

Leo K.

Quote from: SonicMan on March 20, 2011, 03:58:09 PM
Well, I was quite curious about those Cooper performances of the Diabelli Variations - the CD price was a little steep, so decided on a MP3 download from Amazon - transferred to my iPod and now listening on my den stereo system - will report back later!  :D

I downloaded it too, from iTunes  ;D Way cheaper!

I look forward to your impressions!


SonicMan46

Quote from: Leo K on March 20, 2011, 04:30:39 PM
I downloaded it too, from iTunes  ;D Way cheaper!

I look forward to your impressions!

Leo - my Amazon download was $9 - can't imagine that iTunes was 'way cheaper'?

Well, just my first listen and late at night; first, the instrument sounds just beautiful (difficult to tell from a 'modern' piano) and w/ little additional noises that often accompany these fortepianos; Cooper plays w/ a nice subdued grace and melodic line that I enjoy, and the recorded sound is excellent (although I usually have to turned up the volume slightly on these MP3 downloads) - I have only one other recording of these works on a modern piano, so not an 'expert' in commenting on a wide selection of these performances; however, if one wants a recording on the fortepiano, this would certainly be a top consideration - Dave  :D

But, I'm trying to find the liner notes online (like a PDF file) - below is an image for the fortepiano from the Channel Classics Records website, so I'm assuming that this is the instrument that Cooper used in these recordings?  Below the image is another quote from the website concerning the selection of the instrument!




QuoteThe decision to use a historic Viennese instrument for this recording - built in the very year Beethoven completed his Diabelli Variations – is, in one sense, self-explanatory. Newly & magnificently restored by Edwin Beunk, the Walter und Sohn grand piano featured here is both a beautiful & charming instrument. In approaching the timeless, expansive sound world of Beethoven's late, great works, any piano is constantly tested; historic instruments not far off two hundred years old additionally so! This is the first commercial recording, to my knowledge, which attempts to place this particular masterpiece firmly in the sound-world of the early 1820s, when it was conceived and first played. In the process of doing so, previously hidden colours and textures may well be revealed to the listener: for pianos of this period have everything to do with colour, while at the same time having very little to do with sheer power, brilliance of clarity, or a capacity to sustain effortlessly: the sound-world to which we are mostly accustomed in the C21st. Therefore, the challenge to both instrument and performer using historic pianos is appreciably great (including occasional moments of audible pedal & action noise, for which I ask the listener's patience and understanding) but I feel well worth the effort, since only additional rewards can be attained in serving to illuminate areas of this immense, mystical, timeless work of art from differing perspectives.

Leo K.

#535
Quote from: SonicMan on March 20, 2011, 05:06:13 PM
Leo - my Amazon download was $9 - can't imagine that iTunes was 'way cheaper'?

Sorry about the vagueness, I meant downloads are cheaper than buying a CD.  8)

Quote from: SonicMan on March 20, 2011, 05:06:13 PM
Well, just my first listen and late at night; first, the instrument sounds just beautiful (difficult to tell from a 'modern' piano) and w/ little additional noises that often accompany these fortepianos; Cooper plays w/ a nice subdued grace and melodic line that I enjoy, and the recorded sound is excellent (although I usually have to turned up the volume slightly on these MP3 downloads) - I have only one other recording of these works on a modern piano, so not an 'expert' in commenting on a wide selection of these performances; however, if one wants a recording on the fortepiano, this would certainly be a top consideration - Dave  :D

But, I'm trying to find the liner notes online (like a PDF file) - below is an image for the fortepiano from the Channel Classics Records website, so I'm assuming that this is the instrument that Cooper used in these recordings?  Below the image is another quote from the website concerning the selection of the instrument!




Thanks for the extra info on the notes for this recording!




milk

I have one more thing I wanted to ask about: It seems like many people hate the Arthur Schoonderwoerd & Cristofori Beethoven recordings. Am I the only one here who loves these? I have to say I know nothing about music. I just respond to these recordings. Am I correct that these are universally hated?

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: milk on April 04, 2011, 12:47:49 AM
I have one more thing I wanted to ask about: It seems like many people hate the Arthur Schoonderwoerd & Cristofori Beethoven recordings. Am I the only one here who loves these? I have to say I know nothing about music. I just respond to these recordings. Am I correct that these are universally hated?

No, only I hate them and I give my reasons. But since no one takes me seriously, why should you?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Que

Quote from: milk on April 04, 2011, 12:47:49 AM
I have one more thing I wanted to ask about: It seems like many people hate the Arthur Schoonderwoerd & Cristofori Beethoven recordings. Am I the only one here who loves these? I have to say I know nothing about music. I just respond to these recordings. Am I correct that these are universally hated?

I like them  - quite so, I know (new) erato likes them, probably Gurn and some others here as well.

But never mind, slightly varying on Sforzando's comment.. ;), just indulge in what takes your fancy! :)

Q

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Que on April 10, 2011, 04:15:34 AM
I like them  - quite so, I know (new) erato likes them, probably Gurn and some others here as well.

But never mind, slightly varying on Sforzando's comment.. ;), just indulge in what takes your fancy! :)

Q

See? there you go. But this is one case where the Emperor truly has no clothes.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."