Beethoven in Period Performances

Started by Que, April 07, 2007, 07:34:50 AM

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Opus106

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 18, 2011, 07:59:09 AM
Off-topic: If I were a journalist and a musical reviewer the highest goal in my professional life would be at this moment to organize some meetings/dialogues among some wonderful old men who in the next years will not be more with us (I mean if we are still here in the next years  ;D): Gustav Leonhardt (1928), Paul Badura-Skoda (1927), Jörg Demus (1928), Nikolaus Harnoncourt (1929), immediately come to my mind in the field of HIP performance... But this is a totally stupid world and probably this is just a naive idea from a naive music lover.     

Maybe Jens and Harry can pull a few strings for us in the high places. :D
Regards,
Navneeth

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Opus106 on September 18, 2011, 08:15:33 AM
Maybe Jens and Harry can pull a few strings for us in the high places. :D

Yes, it would be great.

Unfortunately our Jens is too "democratic" for these purposes because, after all, he considers all this thing about period instruments v/s modern instruments as a sort of false dichotomy. We would need a totally convinced reviewer, a "believer" (as Johan van Veen or people of that profile), even if he is not a journalist... Probably a younger musician like Peter Watchorn or Brad Lehman.  :)

Oldnslow

Sounds like a job for David Hurwitz...... :P

kishnevi

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 18, 2011, 07:59:09 AM
Off-topic: If I were a journalist and a musical reviewer the highest goal in my professional life would be at this moment to organize some meetings/dialogues among some wonderful old men who in the next years will not be more with us (I mean if we are still here in the next years  ;D): Gustav Leonhardt (1928), Paul Badura-Skoda (1927), Jörg Demus (1928), Nikolaus Harnoncourt (1929), immediately come to my mind in the field of HIP performance... But this is a totally stupid world and probably this is just a naive idea from a naive music lover.   

Off topic to your off topic (is that OT2?)

Are you aware that Badura-Skoda and Demus have just released a CD of Mozart on the Gramola label?  Instruments are given as "Anton Walter Hammerfluegel/Fortepiano"
Contents are
Sonata in D major for 2 pianos K448
Andante with Variations in G major for piano four hands K501
Fantasia in c minor K396 (Demus)
Fantasia in d minor K397 (Demus)
Larghetto and Allegro in E flat major for two pianos [completed by Badura-Skoda] K deest
Fantasia in c minor K475 (Badura-Skoda)

Without knowing who they are, or seeing the album cover and photos in the liner notes(which include photos of them playing together and another one meant to be charming showing them eating peaches or something), you'd have no idea they were anything over 30.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 18, 2011, 09:54:23 AM
Off topic to your off topic (is that OT2?)

Are you aware that Badura-Skoda and Demus have just released a CD of Mozart on the Gramola label?  Instruments are given as "Anton Walter Hammerfluegel/Fortepiano"
Contents are
Sonata in D major for 2 pianos K448
Andante with Variations in G major for piano four hands K501
Fantasia in c minor K396 (Demus)
Fantasia in d minor K397 (Demus)
Larghetto and Allegro in E flat major for two pianos [completed by Badura-Skoda] K deest
Fantasia in c minor K475 (Badura-Skoda)

Without knowing who they are, or seeing the album cover and photos in the liner notes(which include photos of them playing together and another one meant to be charming showing them eating peaches or something), you'd have no idea they were anything over 30.

Hot damn, that sounds like a 'must have' for me! Possibly their Schwanengesang? I have no recording of Demus playing a fortepiano, although I understand that he used to do it a lot, an early pioneer, so to speak. Thanks for pointing that up, Jeffery. Now to find it....  :)

8)
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 18, 2011, 08:33:14 AM
Yes, it would be great.

Unfortunately our Jens is too "democratic" for these purposes because, after all, he considers all this thing about period instruments v/s modern instruments as a sort of false dichotomy. We would need a totally convinced reviewer, a "believer" (as Johan van Veen or people of that profile), even if he is not a journalist... Probably a younger musician like Peter Watchorn or Brad Lehman.  :)

Too perfect, Toñio, it'll never happen... :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Opus106

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 10:01:55 AM
Too perfect, Toñio, it'll never happen... :-\
8)

We don't have "little Tony" any more. ;D
Regards,
Navneeth

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Opus106 on September 18, 2011, 10:10:14 AM
We don't have "little Tony" any more. ;D

That's right. Letter "ñ" was too complicated for this international board.  :)

Opus106

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 10:00:31 AM
I have no recording of Demus playing a fortepiano, although I understand that he used to do it a lot, an early pioneer, so to speak. Thanks for pointing that up, Jeffery. Now to find it....  :)

8)
[To take the thread even further off topic]

A Schubert/Schumann lieder disc featuring him and Ameling has been on my wish-list for a while, mainly for this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/rPpII4xTVrc    http://www.youtube.com/v/IIJKgRs2BMU
Regards,
Navneeth

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Opus106 on September 18, 2011, 10:10:14 AM
We don't have "little Tony" any more. ;D

:)  Merely a token of friendship as opposed to an actual use of his handle, Nav.... 0:)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 10:01:55 AM
Too perfect, Toñio, it'll never happen... :-\

8)

I know, I know, but it could be so easy for certain people... Well, not totally easy because, for instance, sometimes my admired Leonhardt can be a difficult oldman (I recall a funny anecdote by Tom Beghin, told in his Virtual Haydn project), but how could he refuse a meeting with some of those old pals, just to talk about the past 50 or 60 years?  :)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Opus106 on September 18, 2011, 10:15:37 AM
[To take the thread even further off topic]

A Schubert/Schumann lieder disc featuring him and Ameling has been on my wish-list for a while, mainly for this:

They have been virtually giving this away on Amazon USA for quite some time.

[asin]B000001TWU[/asin]

I've had it wishlisted but not pulled the trigger yet. Now you've given me the impetus. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

kishnevi

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 10:00:31 AM
Now to find it....  :)

8)

I got it as an Amazon pre-release order.
[asin]B0055WXVTU[/asin]

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 18, 2011, 09:54:23 AM
Off topic to your off topic (is that OT2?)

Are you aware that Badura-Skoda and Demus have just released a CD of Mozart on the Gramola label?  Instruments are given as "Anton Walter Hammerfluegel/Fortepiano"
Contents are
Sonata in D major for 2 pianos K448
Andante with Variations in G major for piano four hands K501
Fantasia in c minor K396 (Demus)
Fantasia in d minor K397 (Demus)
Larghetto and Allegro in E flat major for two pianos [completed by Badura-Skoda] K deest
Fantasia in c minor K475 (Badura-Skoda)

Without knowing who they are, or seeing the album cover and photos in the liner notes(which include photos of them playing together and another one meant to be charming showing them eating peaches or something), you'd have no idea they were anything over 30.

Thanks for the info, Jeffrey. A must-have, indeed.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 10:26:36 AM
They have been virtually giving this away on Amazon USA for quite some time.

[asin]B000001TWU[/asin]

I've had it wishlisted but not pulled the trigger yet. Now you've given me the impetus. :)

8)

And maybe you could add this beautiful disc to your order:

[asin]B00002587O[/asin]

$6 "used like new".


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 18, 2011, 11:07:06 AM
And maybe you could add this beautiful disc to your order:

[asin]B00002587O[/asin]

$6 "used like new".

Thanks, got it! We have to get all this stuff done before Que comes through tonight and moves all the non-Beethoven stuff.... :D

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 11:11:04 AM
Thanks, got it! We have to get all this stuff done before Que comes through tonight and moves all the non-Beethoven stuff.... :D

8)

Yes!!! He will have hard work tonight. All this stuff and the pictures posted by Sonic in the "Last movie you watched" thread. Oh, my... I'm a damn tittle-tattle!  ;D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on September 18, 2011, 11:17:46 AM
Yes!!! He will have hard work tonight. All this stuff and the pictures posted by Sonic in the "Last movie you watched" thread. Oh, my... I'm a damn tittle-tattle!  ;D

:D  OK, back on topic, I have several issues of the CBE that have Demus playing, but it is all on a modern piano. Among other things he plays the WoO 47 "Kurfurstensonaten" (first sonatas) in a lovely manner. They don't sound like 1782, however... :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Clever Hans

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 07:19:48 AM
Leo,
Oh sure, and it only took me 10 years to get it all! Worth it though, it is far and away my favorite if one could only have a complete cycle and not one put together from parts. Badura-Skoda is The Man when it comes to Viennese High Classical piano works. The only downside that i can see is that it is on Astrée. I hate them, they are my favorite label.   >:(   :)  (for explanation, see first sentence)

8)

The downside to that important set is that the historic pianos are in my opinion recorded a little too close and sound worse for wear from all those years. The Arcana Schubert sounds better. He also seems to be struggling sometimes to get a decent sound out of those pianos in comparison with his playing on the Eurodisc late 70s/early 80s Mozart Sonatas on a Bosendorfer/Steinway.
In any case, despite his interpretive insights--which are many--he really lacks the finish of Komen, Lubimov, Staier, Brautigam, Schornsheim and Crawford, among others. We should remember that the first public champion of the thornier Beethoven works was Liszt himself!

So for now on fortepiano I definitely prefer Brautigam, who is particularly strong in the big middle period works, and for whom BIS managed to get a nice sound (his Mozart especially and Haydn series were recorded with too much reverberation).

Komen, Lubimov, and Crawford certainly mix it up in the last three sonatas.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on September 18, 2011, 11:33:47 AM
:D  OK, back on topic, I have several issues of the CBE that have Demus playing, but it is all on a modern piano. Among other things he plays the WoO 47 "Kurfurstensonaten" (first sonatas) in a lovely manner. They don't sound like 1782, however... :-\

8)

Yes, I know he recorded some Beethoven, but apparently just using modern instruments. NML shows at least 5 Beethoven discs played by him on modern instruments. Anyway, his Schubert on fortepiano is excellent, although with no information about the specific fortepiano used. I also own his set of the complete Schumann's music for keyboard (Nuova Era, 13-CD set) which was subject of a long discussion regarding the instruments played there.