Beethoven in Period Performances

[Soundproof]

ADDING

I've now listened to the "music only" version, and wish they hadn't cleaned it up as much as they have. The sound effects and rustle of the people in the "film version" added to the sense of grit that appealed to me during the first listen.
With those gone, the performance seems too close to contemporary performance standards for me to hear it as a true HIP version. Which is surprising, as it is Gardiner and a historically "correct" music orchestra ...

I do, however, really appreciate the sense of intimacy in the Second Movement, which appealed to me.

[Novi]

How nice to read your review as I already have ordered the last one.  It should be in my mailbox any day now.

Meanwhile, I've been waiting and waiting for the Castle Trio's recording of the Archduke and Kakadu Variations.  Everytime I order it, I get the message that it's no longer available.

Now that ArkivMusic.com has made an agreement to do licensed copies of EMI and Virgin's  music, hopefully it will be back in the catalog.  Or perhaps it will be available as a lossless download from itunes.

Bunny, it's been a couple of months so I don't know if you're still looking, but the disk is available at mdt. 

[George]

All this is topped by magnificent performances by Joannes Leertouwer and Julian Reynolds.

1st mvt of the Spring Sonata
2nd mvt of the Kreutzer Sonata

Enjoy!

Q

Indeed these are special, Que!

Thanks for taking the time to upload.

BTW, the download took a split second! 

[Bunny]

Bunny, it's been a couple of months so I don't know if you're still looking, but the disk is available at mdt. 

I actually found the disc stateside.  I had standing orders at MDT and ArkivMusic which I then canceled as I had only received a notice from MDT the day before that the item was still backordered.  Btw, I had emailed EMI/Virgin to ask whether they had "deleted [it] from the catalogue" and they replied that they were not going to produce more so it was officially oop.  Now it seems to be cropping up all over the place, but I really can't complain. I managed to pick up a copy for pennies when used copies had been listed at Amazon for serious money.

I'm also happy that I was able to pick up the Op. 70 (Ghost) which is considerably harder to find as it's not part of the other 2cd set of the trios from Virgin.  That hasn't been reissued in years, and so far as I know is only available in the original Smithsonian issue.  That's also going for serious money at Amazon and Ebay nowadays.

[Que]

I actually found the disc stateside.  I had standing orders at MDT and ArkivMusic which I then canceled as I had only received a notice from MDT the day before that the item was still backordered.  Btw, I had emailed EMI/Virgin to ask whether they had "deleted [it] from the catalogue" and they replied that they were not going to produce more so it was officially oop.  Now it seems to be cropping up all over the place, but I really can't complain. I managed to pick up a copy for pennies when used copies had been listed at Amazon for serious money.

I'm also happy that I was able to pick up the Op. 70 (Ghost) which is considerably harder to find as it's not part of the other 2cd set of the trios from Virgin.  That hasn't been reissued in years, and so far as I know is only available in the original Smithsonian issue.  That's also going for serious money at Amazon and Ebay nowadays.

Congrats with your finds! 
Please post your impressions in the coming time.
I'm on the look for the piano trios too! Amazing how little HIP recordings there are...
Maybe the Van Swieten Trio would have a go at them - they would be ideally suited. I have high hopes!

Q

[Bunny]

I just listened to the Kreutzer excerpt you posted.  What a lovely job they do with that!  You know it's in the shopping cart now.

I have to say that the Castle Trio's Archduke is really very nice. Time constraints have prevented me from listening to the other cds yet.  (In fact, I hardly have time to post anymore!)  I was able to give it a brief spin the other night.  Although I was warned that the fortepiano was a bit muffled in this recording, I didn't notice anything like that.  In fact, I felt the recording balance of the instruments was fine.  So far, I have liked what I have heard, with sound quality not the equal of modern SACD but still quite good, as are interpretation and performance.  I don't know if this will supersede the Immerseel, Bylsma, Schröder recording of the Archduke and Ghost trios yet as I haven't had the chance to listen to those again for comparison.  Worse,  I haven't had a chance to even listen to the Schubert, and may not have that chance for a bit as we are again getting out of the city to enjoy the warm summer.  I'll try to get everything onto the ipod, but I'll have to remove other things I love and I hate making that type decision just before I go away. 

I think Don mentioned that the only HIP recordings of the Piano Trios were made by the London Fortepiano Trio and the Castle Trio. In fact, it was his recommendation that set me off to find the Castle Trio recordings.  I haven't been able to find any Beethoven by the London F/P trio at all.  It's so long OOP that it's not even floating out there on Ebay and Amazon at sky high prices.
 
As soon has I have the chance to listen more, I'll try and post.  Hopefully I won't be running around to have more sun and fun by that time.

[Que]

   

I have uploaded some clips (320 kbps) from these CD's by Paul Komen.

Sonata no. 21 op. 53 "Waldstein" - 1st mvt
Sonata no. 31 op. 110 - 1st & 2nd mvts
Diabelli Variations - thema & var. 1-7

Enjoy! 

Q

[PerfectWagnerite]

If anyone is interested I have the first movement of Savall's Eroica with his Les Concert des Nationshere to download.

and the second movement

and the third movement

and the finale

And as a bonus you get the Coriolan Overture here.

Enjoy. Everything expires in 7 days.

[Tancata]

If anyone is interested I have the first movement of Savall's Eroica with his Les Concert des Nationshere to download.

and the second movement

and the third movement

and the finale

And as a bonus you get the Coriolan Overture here.

Enjoy. Everything expires in 7 days.

Awesome - really awesome, thanks.

[Lethevich]

Thank you very much

[Que]

I bought a while ago Frans Brüggen's complete Beethoven symphonies,
and recently Bruno Weil's recording of the 5th & 6th.




It's funny, the first Beethoven symphony I heard on record was the "Eroïca" by Brüggen which got from the library many moons ago... (I was 15 years old). It made a huge impression. Being a novice I didn't remember later which particular recording it was and I purchased HvK's last recording of the piece - which really put me off on him.   
Only many years later I figured out that it had been the Brüggen, because I did remember it was on Philips and still had a vague notion how the cover looked like. Planning to buy the recording after all, I attended a concert in the mean time and on the program was...Brüggen and the "Eroïca"! And it was an absolute dud - a restrained and uninspired performance. I immediately aborted my purchasing plans. That was years ago and a couple of months ago I decided to buy it after all. So Brüggen and I have quite a history! 

Well, on to the recordings. First some general impressions. I encountered in these recordings familiar Brüggen-characteristics: his conducting can sound too deliberate, restrained and rather self-conscious. On the other hand he has much integrity and is very meticulous: it sounds all very well constructed, with a keen feeling for layering, tempi, transitions and proportions. The music is executed with the utmost care for detail.
I had expected from Brüggen, given his credentials in Haydn and Mozart, whopping performances of the 1st & 2nd symphonies. No such thing - they are nice but also a tad dutiful. Maybe it's nostalgia but I was pleasantly surprised by the "Eroïca" - really a crackling and lean performance. Because of the greater transparency and more flowing and fleet tempi it sounds here particularly less "huge" or overblown and solid in comparison to non-HIP performances. That goes for the emotional side to: this a "Eroïca" with a very human side and of human proportions. I think the 4th is very successful too, brimming with energy. Brüggen gets the mysterious opening right and contrasts that nicely the upbeat section that follows. The 5th is good and finely grained, but is too sober. In the 6th he noticeably achieves a very beautiful clear and softly edged orchestral sound, but in terms of tempi and phrasing it's quite ordinary. The 7th an 8th are particularly successful I think - on the level of the 3rd & 4th, and probably even better. Brüggen clearly connected to these dark, more inward looking symphonies. A serviceable 9th.

Recording is variable - at times quite distant and lacking in bloom, the result being a bit amorphous sometimes - for a period performance. That does impede a true enjoyment of the niceties of the individual colour of the period instruments, particularly the strings - they sound merely as "one block" - and the brass. I can testify to the fact that the recording venue, Muziekcentrum Vredenburg (Utrecht, Netherlands), is nothing more than a big concrete bath tub built in the 70's. All it really needs is a large amount of dynamite to blow it to pieces and never to be mentioned again...
But also I think Brüggen's orchestra is too big in several symphonies to get the right amount of transparency and balance between strings and woodwinds/brass. If I compare with Weil in the 5th & 6th symphonies: he uses seven 1st violins and six 2nd violins, Brüggen nine for both.

So what does this all amount too? Not a HIP-epiphany this set - I personally miss more instrumental HIP colouring, and a smaller scale performance. Moreover,  Brüggen's interpretations are for a HIP performance on the traditional, "conservative" side. It figures that this set is often described as HIP that not really sounds like HIP. Though differences are clearly there, but are subtle. 
I think decisive is whether you respond to Brüggen's personality which marks this set. If you like Brüggen in other composers, you may very well be very satisfied with this set - it has plenty to offer.


Next up is Bruno Weil recent recording of the 5th and 6th:



Well, this truly is a HIP-epiphany! Woooww.
First thing that came to mind when I heard this: Beethoven is home again. What do I mean by that? That I can hear Beethoven as he was, in his "proper" historical and musical context. As a student of Haydn and a successor of him and Mozart. Not a pre-echo of Bruckner that fell from the skies.
It's clearly noticeable that Weil is a great Haydn conductor too. Not that these performances sound "Haydnesque", but Haydn's heritage in several details of the music is recognisable. The performance is small scale and transparent but quite pungent, vibrant with all instrumental HIP sonorities to enjoy. Perfect balance between strings and winds. The sound of the natural horns and other brass are splendidly showcased here. The 1st mvt of the 5th is entrancing. And just hear the strings "humming" in the slow movement of the 6th...Feels "right" from start to finish. Recording leaves nothing to be desired - simply natural and perfect.

I'll be looking forward to the next installment in Weil's LvB series. As I will be in eager anticipation of Van Immerseel's LvB cycle. I think HIP Beethoven interpretation in the symphonies has turned another corner and made a leap forward.

Q

[prémont]

Que, thanks for this elaborate and well considered review. It leaves no doubt as to what to acquire and what not to acquire..

[Que]

Recommended post by rubio.

Symphony No. 2 and 8 from this set. This is the first HIP Beethoven set I hear, and I'm surprised how much I like it. I think Norrignton succeed very much with these lesser known Beethoven symphonies; No. 2 coming up as one of my favourites. I love the woodwind playing and the freshness the speed, tightness and dancing rhythms give. It's so nice to be re-introduced to these works in this way, and so much more or different details can  be heard. How does the style of Hogwood and Bruno Weil compare to Norrington in the Beethoven symphonies? I have heard a bit of Zinman, and didn't like it as much as Norrington. It wasn't as "different"/exciting as Norrington.

[Que]

Maybe I shouldn't have called the LvB 5th & 6th symphonies by Bruno Weil an epiphany - because what I am supposed to call this then?   

This is several things in one: an excellent HIP recording of these piano concertos and a "chamber orchestra" version at the same time. On top of that this reveals Arthur Schoonderwoerd as a really superb Beethoven pianist.
The most controversial issue is the fact that, based on research on the venue of the first performance of the 4th concerto - a hall of very modest dimensions in the palace of Prince Lobkowitz where there was only room for 24 musicians, the concertos are performed by 20 and 21 musicians (including the soloist) respectively. One could argue that Beethoven had little choice on the matter, might have preferred a bigger orchestra, and indeed probably used a bigger orchestra on later occasions. I have a simple test in these matters: does it work? And yes indeed - it does!  Considering the fact that late Haydn symphonies are also performed by these modest numbers, I find the choice here not out of place at all. And do not fear "anaemic" sound: this splashes in your face!


click picture for more samples

Let's move on to impressions of the performance itself. These remind me of the happy days of another Arthur - Arthur Schnabel: swift, buoyant, intuitive and remarkably "fresh". Very crisp articulation. Schoonderwoerd posses the art to make perfect transitions in mood: from light hearted, trough melancholy, to great passion - he "digs" his instrument when called for. Let's not forget - with all those distracting discussions about the pros and cons of HIP - that the HIP movement counts a considerable number of top class pianists - like Ronald Brautigam, Paul Komen, Andreas Staier, and I'm now adding Schoonderwoerd to the list. The interplay between the pianoforte and the other instruments is a revelation with these limited numbers. Choice of the pianoforte - A Viennese instrument by Joahnn Fritz from 1807-1810 - is perfect for these pieces: very crisp action, and a clear, muscular sound. Needless to say this is excellently recorded.

Whether you already have HIP or not: this is unique. Must-have....

Q

[Harry]

Well I have listen to these performances, but boy the tempi are way to slow for me, and there is some heavy breathing going on, and the recording is extremely direct.
Not my cup of soup I am afraid Que.
On a musical level it is well done though....

[Que]

Well I have listen to these performances, but boy the tempi are way to slow for me, and there is some heavy breathing going on, and the recording is extremely direct.
Not my cup of soup I am afraid Que.
On a musical level it is well done though....

Huhh? Too slow?! 
How's that, Harry? Tempi are faster than on any recording I have, with the exception of Kempff/Van Kempen.
Or is that your impression of the embedded MPs sample?
I didn't notice any breathing btw.

Q

[Harry]

Huhh? Too slow?! 
How's that, Harry? Tempi are faster than on any recording I have, with the exception of Kempff/Van Kempen.
Or is that your impression of the embedded MPs sample?
I didn't notice any breathing btw.

Q

I found the embedded sample much to slow and careful....
In the beginning of this movement there is breathing, maybe that's because I have highly revealing Bose speakers attached to my computer.
Again very delicately done, and a fine touche....

[FideLeo]

I found the embedded sample much to slow and careful....
In the beginning of this movement there is breathing, maybe that's because I have highly revealing Bose speakers attached to my computer.
Again very delicately done, and a fine touche....

Adagio un poco mosso from No5 this must be.  Yes there is breathing before the start heard on my Stax also. 

[Harry]

Adagio un poco mosso from No5 this must be.  Yes there is breathing before the start heard on my Stax also. 

Yo, Stax rules.
Still have a top model at home.
Sadly I am forbidden to use these fine headphones.
Its time that I sell them I guess.

[Harry]

Will do after the workout of today!