Beethoven in Period Performances

Started by Que, April 07, 2007, 07:34:50 AM

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Elgarian

Quote from: Leo K on December 08, 2011, 06:27:31 AM
I started with the 1st, 2nd and 4th :)

And yes! I did punch the air and bop! All accept strut :)

Wow! So far I'm very impressed with this set. What I've heard is sublime. The last new Beethoven cycle I tried was the Vanska, but this set blows that set to bits. The Norrington cycle was my top set but that is changing now ;) Also, for the 9th I usually gravitate towards Furtwangler. But lately Ive been in the mood for a new PI account of not just the 9th but the whole cycle.

Also, I can't wait to hear the 5th!

Oh wonderful! That's so good to hear. I agree with Chasmaniac - one of my predominant feelings is sheer gratitude to Immerseel and his band, for opening a brilliant new window onto Beethoven, and for showing Chuck Berry that it's now his turn to roll over.

Que

Quote from: Elgarian on December 08, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
Oh wonderful! That's so good to hear. I agree with Chasmaniac - one of my predominant feelings is sheer gratitude to Immerseel and his band, for opening a brilliant new window onto Beethoven, and for showing Chuck Berry that it's now his turn to roll over.

Oh sweet memories come back to mind, of the times I tried to convince former member M forever that Immerseel's Schubert cycle was absolutely superb.

But no, according to him it was all speudo-HIP BS! :o ;D

Times have changed at GMG. 8)

Q

SonicMan46

Quote from: Geo Dude on December 07, 2011, 07:25:28 PM
To be fair, the pricing on the L'Archibudelli recordings was not bad the last time I checked if you were willing to order them used.  Good luck in your search, in any case.

Well ALL - decided to go the 'used' route, and picked up the 2 L'Archibudelli discs for about $20 off the Amazon MP - both were listed @ as being in 'Very Good' condition and the sellers ratings were in the high 90s - looking forward to their arrival!  Dave :)

Leo K.

#623
Quote from: Elgarian on December 08, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
Oh wonderful! That's so good to hear. I agree with Chasmaniac - one of my predominant feelings is sheer gratitude to Immerseel and his band, for opening a brilliant new window onto Beethoven, and for showing Chuck Berry that it's now his turn to roll over.

Wow...Immerseel's account of Beethoven's symphonies are a revelation, and I'm constantly reevaluating Beethoven's symphonies like I haven't since I first heard them years ago. I'm even even challenged from listening to this set, it's very exciting! Above all hearing these works in such detail and subtlety is such a joy!

haven't heard the whole box yet, but right now listening to the 5th and 7th for the second time.

8)

mszczuj

Quote from: Leo K on December 10, 2011, 06:50:39 AM
Wow...Immerseel's account of Beethoven's symphonies are a revelation, and I'm constantly reevaluating Beethoven's symphonies like I haven't since I first heard them years ago.

Do you know The Hanover Band performance?

Leo K.

Quote from: mszczuj on December 10, 2011, 09:22:03 AM
Do you know The Hanover Band performance?

I actually got that too, but haven't jumped in yet. Are they comparable?

8)

Leo K.

#626




I've been exploring the Badura-Skoda Beethoven sonata cycle this week, starting with the first three disks, and highly enjoying the journey  8)


Gurn Blanston

#627
Quote from: Leo K on December 17, 2011, 07:14:51 AM



I've been exploring the Badura-Skoda Beethoven sonata cycle this week, starting with the first three disks, and highly enjoying the journey  8)

My favorite cycle. Even though it has been explained to me that it isn't the best one around. ;)  I also highly enjoy it. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

mszczuj

Quote from: Leo K on December 10, 2011, 09:46:58 AM
I actually got that too, but haven't jumped in yet. Are they comparable?

I was planning to make some comparison before answering but there was not time for it.

So:

The Hanover Band symphonies are definitely my first choice. They are very close to my opinion about Beethoven symphonies as treatises concerning mind, God, universe, mankind etc. in form of concerto for orchestra. (Treatises using points of view, categories and notions appropriate for the contemporary of Hegel - that's important!)

Anima Eterna is probably my second choice. They sound much better and I really like them but while I'm listening to them - especially to fast movements - I repeat "No! No! No!" all the time. For me they are too abstract, too polite chamber music. I would say that they are just the music and not the thought while Beethoven symphonies should be the thought (as they could be the thought) - but this is the false contradiction as the music is the thought. Of course playing Beethoven music as chamber music is infinitely better than common playing it as postbrahmsian glue - but it lacks some possibilities of three section real Beethoven orchestra.

As further referention to my taste I would say:

My third choice is probably Bruggen. Then Hogwood. I was fond of Norrington 6th last movement. Found nothing interesting in Gardiner so far.

From not PI interpretations my favourites are Mackerras, Kletzki, Haitink and probably Blomsted (I have only some LP).

What I really hate is Toscanini and above all Furtwangler.


Elgarian

Quote from: mszczuj on December 19, 2011, 12:40:52 AM
Anima Eterna is probably my second choice. They sound much better and I really like them but while I'm listening to them - especially to fast movements - I repeat "No! No! No!" all the time. For me they are too abstract, too polite chamber music.

What a fascinating thing to say. My magnetic attraction towards the Immerseel symphonies was primarily because they were the first non-polite interpretations of Beethoven I'd ever heard. Now, your comment makes me wonder what those Hanover Band performances must be like! Sounds like something I should investigate.

Leon

QuoteThe Hanover Band symphonies are definitely my first choice.

For me these recordings are marred by the overly-reverberant sound, which takes nothing away from Goodman's interpretative excellence, but which blurs many of the details and keeps me from listening to these recordings more often.

I do not understand why they chose a church as the best place to record an orchestra.

:) 

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Arnold on December 19, 2011, 05:55:34 AM
For me these recordings are marred by the overly-reverberant sound, which takes nothing away from Goodman's interpretative excellence, but which blurs many of the details and keeps me from listening to these recordings more often.

I do not understand why they chose a church as the best place to record an orchestra.

:)

Sadly, I can only agree with you, Arnold. I think the playing is first-rate, and I like the interpretations a lot, but the sound, well, essentially stinks. When even I can hear it, you know it's not good. :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Elgarian

Quote from: Arnold on December 19, 2011, 05:55:34 AM
For me these recordings are marred by the overly-reverberant sound, which takes nothing away from Goodman's interpretative excellence, but which blurs many of the details and keeps me from listening to these recordings more often.

I do not understand why they chose a church as the best place to record an orchestra.

:)

I've just been listening to some samples, and I must say that even in 30-second snatches, the sound quality wore me out. It sounds as if they were recorded playing inside a large tin can.

Quite how much that contributes to my negative response overall is hard to determine, especially since all I've heard are short snatches, but these performances would not, I am convinced, have set me on fire in the way that Immerseel's did (and continue to do). I know it's unfair to say this, based on so little evidence, but they seem a bit tame, really. At any rate, I'm not inspired either to punch the air, or invite the neighbours to come round and rock; or, indeed, to risk a purchase.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Elgarian on December 19, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
I've just been listening to some samples, and I must say that even in 30-second snatches, the sound quality wore me out. It sounds as if they were recorded playing inside a large tin can.

Perhaps they were playing inside a large tin can . . . I consider all the acoustic possibilities, you see.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

I've tried the samples. Certainly not a tin can.

Ensembles which play within aluminum have a perfectly distinctive sound.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Elgarian on December 19, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
I've just been listening to some samples, and I must say that even in 30-second snatches, the sound quality wore me out. It sounds as if they were recorded playing inside a large tin can.

Quite how much that contributes to my negative response overall is hard to determine, especially since all I've heard are short snatches, but these performances would not, I am convinced, have set me on fire in the way that Immerseel's did (and continue to do). I know it's unfair to say this, based on so little evidence, but they seem a bit tame, really. At any rate, I'm not inspired either to punch the air, or invite the neighbours to come round and rock; or, indeed, to risk a purchase.

I can't disagree with you, Alan, I am very partial to the Immerseel recordings. Not being an air puncher, per se, I merely grinned... :)

I do like the Goodman performances though, excepting the sound. Nonetheless, Hogwood and Gardiner are still tops on my personal list when all is said and done.    0:)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Elgarian

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on December 19, 2011, 12:16:34 PM
Not being an air puncher, per se, I merely grinned... :)
Grinning is also an approved response in my book.

I love surprises though, and I'm still chuckling and punching (and indeed lunching) my way through Haitink's decidedly non-PI box of Beethoven with the LSO. Now there's a turn-up for the books. Nothing tame about those.

Elgarian

Quote from: karlhenning on December 19, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Ensembles which play within aluminum have a perfectly distinctive sound.

This is where your immense musical expertise shows, Karl, and proves you to be a critic of real metal mettle.

Geo Dude



I have somewhat mixed feelings on this recording:  On the one hand, the playing and instrument are both amazing.  The interpretations are great and it makes a wonderful case for a fortepiano's heterogeneous sound.  For that matter, the second movement of the the 32nd sonata is one of the most profound things I've ever heard.  On the other hand, the sound is muddied by ridiculous amounts of reverb; I'm sure that in time I'll be able to get past the reverb to completely enjoy the recording, but it frustrates me that proper care wasn't taken to get a clean sound out of the room (or select a better room for recording).

SonicMan46

Quote from: SonicMan46 on December 08, 2011, 06:05:48 PM
Well ALL - decided to go the 'used' route, and picked up the 2 L'Archibudelli discs for about $20 off the Amazon MP - both were listed @ as being in 'Very Good' condition and the sellers ratings were in the high 90s - looking forward to their arrival!  Dave :)

Both 'used' discs have arrived in great shape - played w/o a problem; liner notes look new, and no cracks in the jewel boxes - well pleased w/ these purchases and w/ the recordings - have always loved this group and they don't disappoint in these works! :)