Beethoven in Period Performances

[Que]

Universal's response to HM?


[Image links to Presto]


Diabelli Variations

Beethoven:
   

Diabelli Variations, Op. 120

plus:

Variations on a Waltz by Diabelli

Assmayer • Bocklet • Czapek • Czerny • Dreschler • Freystaedtler • Gänsbacher • Gelinek • Halm • Hoffmann • Horzalka • Huglmann • Hummel • Kalkbrenner • Kerzkowsky • Kreutzer • Lannoy • Leidesdorf • Liszt • Moscheles • W.A. Mozart (son) • Rieger • Roser • Schubert • Stadler • Szalay • Tomaschek (Tomášek) • Winkhler • Wittasek (Vitásek) • Worzischek (Voříšek)

Jörg Demus (fortepiano)

From [the original 'additional' variations], Jörg Demus chooses 32, basing his decisions both on the quality of the pieces themselves, and the playing-time of an LP, on which the recording first appeared. Played on various fortepianos of the time, this marks this unique recording's first release on CD.

A most interesting issue! Especially for HIP-Classical era buffs....

Q

[Opus106]

A most interesting issue! Especially for HIP-Classical era buffs....

Q

Were you around (i.e. not vacationing) when Staier's was released?

[Que]

Were you around (i.e. not vacationing) when Staier's was released?

Yes, that was just before. Haven't checked it out yet. Comments seem to point in the direction of a eccentric, willful interpretation. With Staier, I wouldn't expect otherwise. 
In the meantime I am a happy camper with Paul Komen's varied and direct/"straight" approach.

Q

[Opus106]

Yes, that was just before. Haven't checked it out yet. Comments seem to point in the direction of a eccentric, willful interpretation. With Staier, I wouldn't expect otherwise. 
In the meantime I am a happy camper with Paul Komen's varied and direct/"straight" approach.

Q

Okay; just checking.

[Mandryka]

This post may be nonsense. I'm not sure I've really put my finger on what I think I'm hearing.

I've been listening to the second movement of the  Op 74  quartet, The Harp,  played by a couple of period ensembles, The Eroica Quartet and The Turner Quartet.


What interests me most  is to do with texture. The Eroica play the quartet quite conventionally -- basically they see it as a sequence of major events played by different instruments in the ensemble. The emphasis is given to the violin when he has a big rhetorical statement, and then to the cellist when he has a big tune, and then to the viola player etc. It's basically, according to the Eroica Quartet, a conversational drama and different musicians are  leading the conversation at different times. And a drama of major events.

Not so the Turners, who see it as a drama of texture. All the voices are given equal value at all times, or mostly so. Consequence: it's less a series of major events and more a seamless collage of different musical textures.

This principal, equal value to all the voices, will be familiar to anyone who has discussed Art of the Fugue with Premont.  And with Bach there was some good reason to think it's a good idea to play it like that -- I think that there's some evidence which suggests that that's what he wanted (is that right?)

But with Beethoven it's another kettle of fish, and I must say I think it's very illuminating and refreshing to hear it played like that. How authentic it is is a question I just can't answer.

[springrite]

Never liked Beethoven in period performances, that is, until I bought the Immerseel Beethoven set. It is totally convincing and, in many ways, better than most modern instrument performances I have heard. 

[prémont]

All the voices are given equal value at all times, or mostly so. Consequence: it's less a series of major events and more a seamless collage of different musical textures.

This principal, equal value to all the voices, will be familiar to anyone who has discussed Art of the Fugue with Premont.  And with Bach there was some good reason to think it's a good idea to play it like that -- I think that there's some evidence which suggests that that's what he wanted (is that right?)

But with Beethoven it's another kettle of fish, and I must say I think it's very illuminating and refreshing to hear it played like that. How authentic it is is a question I just can't answer.

While the equality of the parts is a natural "part" of baroque fugal style, I agree with you, that Beethoven (and Vienna classical and romantic style) is something else, because this music contains many notes not having but mere accompanying function. Of course the playing should be transparent, but who would f.i. stress an Alberti bass equally as the melody part? Maybe it is interesting to listen to in a short time because of the unusual tonal balance, but I can not imagine that it is relevatory in the long run. I must add though, that I have not heard the Turner quartet myself. Maybe your impression just is caused by a higher degree of transparency in the playing.

[Wakefield]

Coming soon:



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-1770-1827-Symphonien-Nr-1-9/hnum/3107492

[DavidW]

Interesting find Gordon.  I wonder if they have cd layers...

[Wakefield]

Interesting find Gordon.  I wonder if they have cd layers...

What a nice surprise to see you here, David! Welcome back! 

Regarding your question, I hope this set will be a hybrid one. Anyway, it's curious because I have several Glossa discs and all of them are standard CDs.

[Scarpia]

What a nice surprise to see you here, David! Welcome back! 

Regarding your question, I hope this set will be a hybrid one. Anyway, it's curious because I have several Glossa discs and all of them are standard CDs.

I don't think there are any factories still producing non-hybrid SACD discs.

[Wakefield]

I don't think there are any factories still producing non-hybrid SACD discs.

Yes, that's surely true. Any other way would be stupid from a commercial viewpoint.

[Que]

Coming soon:



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-1770-1827-Symphonien-Nr-1-9/hnum/3107492

Amazing.  But I do wonder how it will be, I saw Brüggen on a tv documentary a while ago - so old and fragile, and in quite bad health.

Q

[Mandryka]

While the equality of the parts is a natural "part" of baroque fugal style, I agree with you, that Beethoven (and Vienna classical and romantic style) is something else, because this music contains many notes not having but mere accompanying function. Of course the playing should be transparent, but who would f.i. stress an Alberti bass equally as the melody part? Maybe it is interesting to listen to in a short time because of the unusual tonal balance, but I can not imagine that it is relevatory in the long run. I must add though, that I have not heard the Turner quartet myself. Maybe your impression just is caused by a higher degree of transparency in the playing.

One consequence of equal balance is that it brings out textural changes written in to the music very clearly. Another aspect of TQ's performance is that it's stationary: you're not involved in a rapidly evolving sequence of big musical gestures. There's drama a plenty, but it's not a drama of major events. I think the Turner recording is interesting and I think it's more interesting than the Eroica Quartet one. In fact The Turners are becoming one of my favourites at the moment. However, anyone who just wants one version of The Harp quartet is probably well advised to look elsewhere.

Oh, and a third aspect of TQ which I like is that it's not at all tortured, it's very calm and poised.

[JaapT]

Coming soon:



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-1770-1827-Symphonien-Nr-1-9/hnum/3107492

If you are in the Netherlands, you can already order this set through the dutch newspaper de Volkskrant:
http://shop.volkskrant.nl/frans-bruggen-beethoven-symfonieen

I have been present during one of the concerts (7 & . I liked it, but I am not sure it is better than his earlier set. Later I heard Bruggen also
with a modern orchestra directing Chopin's 1st concerto with Goerner, and a Haydn symphony. I wasn't too impressed by the Chopin, but the Haydn symphony was played full of energy and bite, despite the frailty of Bruggen.

[DavidW]

What a nice surprise to see you here, David! Welcome back! 

Regarding your question, I hope this set will be a hybrid one. Anyway, it's curious because I have several Glossa discs and all of them are standard CDs.

Thanks for the welcome back!   And for answering my question, I'll look forward to it when I can afford it.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks for the welcome back!   And for answering my question, I'll look forward to it when I can afford it.

Hi David - welcome back!  Just curious, how many times have you been a Newbie here?       Dave

[Que]

If you are in the Netherlands, you can already order this set through the dutch newspaper de Volkskrant:
http://shop.volkskrant.nl/frans-bruggen-beethoven-symfonieen

I have been present during one of the concerts (7 & . I liked it, but I am not sure it is better than his earlier set. [/quote]

Yes I am.  I also have his earlier LvB set, very nice.

Later I heard Bruggen also with a modern orchestra directing Chopin's 1st concerto with Goerner, and a Haydn symphony. I wasn't too impressed by the Chopin, but the Haydn symphony was played full of energy and bite, despite the frailty of Bruggen.

Ah. Didn't he also record that Chopin concerto? I'll have to check. What I've heard of his Haydn is very nice indeed, though a bit too "stately" for my taste.

Q

[Geo Dude]

I've been out of the loop for a while.  Have any period instrument quartets attempted Beethoven's late string quartets (on recording) yet?

[Gurn Blanston]

I've been out of the loop for a while.  Have any period instrument quartets attempted Beethoven's late string quartets (on recording) yet?

Only Op 135. IIRC, that would be the Eroica Quartet;

[asin]B00004RJRK[/asin]

I've had and enjoyed this recording for a few years now. I am completely unaware of any other recording of this work or any other late quartet on PI.