Havergal Brian.

[cilgwyn]

You know your British sitcoms,Johan! I got some episodes recently on dvd,and very funny it is! Banned by the BBC,though! Fortunately,Brian isn't;although you don't hear much these days. I wish they'd repeat the Havergal Brian Composer of the Week. I've got most of one episode on a cassette. The one that covers The Tigers;and must get round to transferring it to a cd. The trouble is the pc is upstairs and the cassette deck is downstairs!! I could upload it then,and some other things I've got! It just means lugging stuff about!!
The third is my favourite Brian symphony;if I had to pick one and I hope Dutton will eventually record it.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

SHUT UP!





Yes, I also hope Dutton will do another Third. Naxos is more likely, I think, if they are serious about filling the gaps in their Brian cycle...

[cilgwyn]

Naxos would be fine by me,if it's the current team. By the way,who do you think is the best at interpreting Brian's scores? Walker or Brabbins? Both,perhaps? Each offering their own slant! The Russian orchestra was particularly interesting in the Sixth. That Russian sound,but not too raspy like in the old Soviet days;although I rather liked that. I would have loved to hear one of those old Soviet orchestras playing Havergal Brian. Svetlanov conducting,perhaps?!! The Naxos recordings we've had now should also guarantee top notch sound if they do record the third;and let's face it,unless an atomic war occurs,it will happen. A recording of Brian's third,I mean!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Brabbins did an excellent job with no. 2 and Walker with no. 29. I single those out, because both conductors showed they can indeed slow down. I say this, because Brian's music has weight, and to take  things at too brisk a tempo spoils that. The slow movement which ends no. 24, for instance, is taken too quickly by Alexander Walker, in my opinion. Fredman is much better here. Ergo: I think both conductors are very good, though I sometimes miss the mystery of the music. A no-nonsense approach only brings you so far with Brian. I have the same problem with Dausgaard's Langgaard...

[John Whitmore]

You know your British sitcoms,Johan! I got some episodes recently on dvd,and very funny it is! Banned by the BBC,though! Fortunately,Brian isn't;although you don't hear much these days. I wish they'd repeat the Havergal Brian Composer of the Week. I've got most of one episode on a cassette. The one that covers The Tigers;and must get round to transferring it to a cd. The trouble is the pc is upstairs and the cassette deck is downstairs!! I could upload it then,and some other things I've got! It just means lugging stuff about!!
The third is my favourite Brian symphony;if I had to pick one and I hope Dutton will eventually record it.

Just about sums the bloody BBC up, lovely boy. 1,2,3...."Whispering grass......"

[cilgwyn]

Yes,I think the Fredman has more atmosphere,really. Also,you're the expert,of course;but I do feel that the approach Walker takes (why am I thinking of Dads Army,now?! ) means that when the crisis arrives and all the violence breaks out in the orchestra,it doesn't have quite so much impact. I also wonder,and maybe I'm being like one of those vinyl proponents,that some of those old analogue recordings did have a bit more atmosphere at times. I have no complaints about modern recording technology as such;but some of the recordings around now can be a little too clinical. A bit like the aural equivalent of some old movies you watch. They're so full of that indefinable quality called atmosphere. Now,I'm not intending to get rid of my HD tv anytime soon;but sometimes I do find myself missing that. Everything is so perfect. You can virttually see every blade of grass;but a great movie that doesn't necessarily make. That said,I do accept that some of that is just my age. I do think though,that some of those old Radio 3 'off air' studio recordings of HB symphonies will be the first port of call for Brianites for many years to come;and Fredman's Sixth and Sixteenth,Groves' Eighth and Ninth are going to prove very hard to beat,for a good reason. I think some of those old conductors really did have the edge, Again.it's probably just an age thing;but maybe not?
As to Dausgaard's Langgaard. Please don't tell me that! I only have the whole set!! On the other hand,I was posting on the WAYLTN (What are you listening to now;for the uninitiated here?) and I was saying that the Danacord Lp of the Sixth symphony and Music of the Spheres was the first Langgaard I ever heard. Tuner,another poster,was saying that he preferred the old Frandsen recording and that it had a superb ending. I had been raving about the Dacapo Music of the Spheres,and about the stunning recording quality;but I did say in my reply that I did feel the Frandsen had a more ominous atmosphere than the new recording.

John,I thought you might be a fan of that show. Indeed,as you probably know,the BBC have stated that it will never be shown ever again on any of their channels;although it is available for download,complete with a content warning!! What canI say? Excellent comedy acting,great scripts. I love the care taken over the sets and Michael Bates was hilarious as the Water Bearer. It brings back memories of sitting on the sofa with my mother and father;who is still alive. Till Death us do Part is another banned show! Alf was a bit of a bigot,though!! Maybe the best place for dvds like this these days is under the floorboards?!!

[John Whitmore]

Yes,I think the Fredman has more atmosphere,really. Also,you're the expert,of course;but I do feel that the approach Walker takes (why am I thinking of Dads Army,now?! ) means that when the crisis arrives and all the violence breaks out in the orchestra,it doesn't have quite so much impact. I also wonder,and maybe I'm being like one of those vinyl proponents,that some of those old analogue recordings did have a bit more atmosphere at times. I have no complaints about modern recording technology as such;but some of the recordings around now can be a little too clinical. A bit like the aural equivalent of some old movies you watch. They're so full of that indefinable quality called atmosphere. Now,I'm not intending to get rid of my HD tv anytime soon;but sometimes I do find myself missing that. Everything is so perfect. You can virttually see every blade of grass;but a great movie that doesn't necessarily make. That said,I do accept that some of that is just my age. I do think though,that some of those old Radio 3 'off air' studio recordings of HB symphonies will be the first port of call for Brianites for many years to come;and Fredman's Sixth and Sixteenth,Groves' Eighth and Ninth are going to prove very hard to beat,for a good reason. I think some of those old conductors really did have the edge, Again.it's probably just an age thing;but maybe not?
As to Dausgaard's Langgaard. Please don't tell me that! I only have the whole set!! On the other hand,I was posting on the WAYLTN (What are you listening to now;for the uninitiated here?) and I was saying that the Danacord Lp of the Sixth symphony and Music of the Spheres was the first Langgaard I ever heard. Tuner,another poster,was saying that he preferred the old Frandsen recording and that it had a superb ending. I had been raving about the Dacapo Music of the Spheres,and about the stunning recording quality;but I did say in my reply that I did feel the Frandsen had a more ominous atmosphere than the new recording.

John,I thought you might be a fan of that show. Indeed,as you probably know,the BBC have stated that it will never be shown ever again on any of their channels;although it is available for download,complete with a content warning!! What canI say? Excellent comedy acting,great scripts. I love the care taken over the sets and Michael Bates was hilarious as the Water Bearer. It brings back memories of sitting on the sofa with my mother and father;who is still alive. Till Death us do Part is another banned show! Alf was a bit of a bigot,though!! Maybe the best place for dvds like this these days is under the floorboards?!!

Great show. I have the DVD box set. The episode with Bing Crosby is epic. The BBC thought police should be sent to room 101. "Content warning" indeed when most modern comedy is full of offensive bad language. Michael Bates using face make-up to pretend to be an Indian - hang him I say.

[cilgwyn]

Indeed! Of course,he was born in India!! Brown make up,or not,he was a brilliant comedy actor. I hadn't seen the show for years;but it was even better than I remembered it. The scripts are also more varied than those of Dads Army. and the best of them are very cleverly worked out.What other British sitcom has episodes set in ruined temples,planes,trains,jungles?!! I only have the first two series at the moment,but I would now place this firmly amongst the best and funniest British 'sitcoms'. The characters are so carefully delineated. I love the way the officers in charge of the unit are portrayed as being so dippy! The Seargent Major is obviously the only one running the unit. Michael Bates' character is comical,but he's also very wily,and probably cleverer than any of the men in charge. And it just is very funny! And yes,the Bing Crosby episode? If it's the one I think you mean. Solly's impersonation of Bing Crosby at the end with Gloria hiding from the admiring eyes of the tribesmen is a classic.

Anyway,back to Brian! We'll need an IAHHM thread,at this rate!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Brian had a sense of humour. He admired Buster Keaton, for instance. So talking about sitcoms isn't too off-topic. Dutch tv always showed and shows British comedy. You Rang M'Lord is another favourite of mine...


Back to Brian!

[vandermolen]

Brian had a sense of humour. He admired Buster Keaton, for instance. So talking about sitcoms isn't too off-topic. Dutch tv always showed and shows British comedy. You Rang M'Lord is another favourite of mine...


Back to Brian!

I hope that includes this sketch - one of my favourites:

https://youtu.be/IRfluaMKoOY

Back on topic, Klassic Haus sent me today the covers of HB's 3rd, 8th and 14th notes now with Johan's excellent booklet note - I can sleep easily tonight.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I hope that includes this sketch - one of my favourites:

https://youtu.be/IRfluaMKoOY

Back on topic, Klassic Haus sent me today the covers of HB's 3rd, 8th and 14th notes now with Johan's excellent booklet note - I can sleep easily tonight.

I know that sketch very well. I even recommend it to people if they want to know what a native Amsterdammer sounds like when he speaks English... Paul Whitehouse has an impeccable ear. Brilliant.


All's well, then!

[vandermolen]

I know that sketch very well. I even recommend it to people if they want to know what a native Amsterdammer sounds like when he speaks English... Paul Whitehouse has an impeccable ear. Brilliant.


All's well, then!

OT

I think that it's a very affectionate sketch too and a happy reminder for me of our famous meeting in Leiden when my daughter was 'studying' at Leiden University for a year.

[cilgwyn]

I just posted this in the "What are you listening to now?" thread.

I'm listening to Havergal Brian's third symphony. This ambitious symphony from 1931-32 incorporates a part for two pianos. The orchestration is Brian at his most imaginative,bringing all kinds of fantastic images to mind. It has been described as Brucknerian,but to me,the only connection is in scale. The pianos weave in and out of parts of the symphony sounding (at times) for all the world as if it has been gatecrashed by a grand,romantic piano concerto;but disappear from the score later. There is no other British symphony remotedly like it from that era.
The artwork pictured here is for the only available truly commercial recording. I'm listening to Klassik Haus' remastering of the 1974 premiere recording and performance with Ronald Stevenson & David Wilde playing the pianos and the New Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Stanley Pope,which is far superior in terms of the actual performance and sound quality. This is my favourite Brian symphony.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

OT

I think that it's a very affectionate sketch too and a happy reminder for me of our famous meeting in Leiden when my daughter was 'studying' at Leiden University for a year.

I treasure the memory, Jeffrey!

I just posted this in the "What are you listening to now?" thread.

I'm listening to Havergal Brian's third symphony. This ambitious symphony from 1931-32 incorporates a part for two pianos. The orchestration is Brian at his most imaginative,bringing all kinds of fantastic images to mind. It has been described as Brucknerian,but to me,the only connection is in scale. The pianos weave in and out of parts of the symphony sounding (at times) for all the world as if it has been gatecrashed by a grand,romantic piano concerto;but disappear from the score later. There is no other British symphony remotedly like it from that era.
The artwork pictured here is for the only available truly commercial recording. I'm listening to Klassik Haus' remastering of the 1974 premiere recording and performance with Ronald Stevenson & David Wilde playing the pianos and the New Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Stanley Pope,which is far superior in terms of the actual performance and sound quality. This is my favourite Brian symphony.

I also love this symphony so much, I bought the very expensive facsimile score...

[cilgwyn]

You've got one up on me there!
Regarding my post. It's all to easy to go over the top about a less well known,or underrated score;but I really can't think of a British score of the time on such an ambitious scale that uses two pianos like that. It's almost like a concerto in some places. There are other symphonies,of course,that use pianos as part of the score,of course. I was playing one only the other day. Langgaard's gorgeously romantic third symphony. But it uses the piano in a totally different way. Martinu uses pianos,but he uses them as part of the orchestra,itself. The Turangalila has a prominent part for piano, ( I haven't heard it in years) but again there is no other similarity. I keep thinking this has got to be one of Brian's most original works in this respect. Perhaps if he had an exotic foreign name it would get more attention than it does? It would certainly look great in concert,with those pianos. A Prom one day,perhaps? (Well,who would have thought they'd do the Gothic?!)
The Klassik Haus remastering of the Aries Lp is fantastic. The sound really opens up.

NB: I seem to remember you have seen it in concert,Johan?!

[cilgwyn]

I've made these points before,I know;but I just felt a need to reiterate them after making that post. I really can't think of anything quite like this particular symphony. Certainly not from Britain in that period of the twentieth century. It desperately needs a new recording;but the Pope is so good it would be great if Testament or Lyrita would issue a remaster. I wonder if Richard Itter recorded it? The wider public need access to a really first class performance of one of his most powerful and original scores!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I saw an amateur performance of the Third on 17 May 1987, a few weeks after being in Liverpool for the Seventh... That's almost exactly 30 years ago. John Pickard helped out in the percussion section!

[calyptorhynchus]

I've just been listening to the 9th. I have no idea why it isn't more popular because it's perfectly understandable on first hearing as a fast-slow-fast symphony with a turbulent first movement, a deeply lyrical slow movement and a triumphant finale.

I think if you have a very unconventional composer the works that get noticed first by people who aren't enthusiasts are the ones that have similarities with other composers' works... in this case structurally.

Come on Classic FM, you can play the slow movement as a 'swoon'.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I've just been listening to the 9th. I have no idea why it isn't more popular because it's perfectly understandable on first hearing as a fast-slow-fast symphony with a turbulent first movement, a deeply lyrical slow movement and a triumphant finale.

I think if you have a very unconventional composer the works that get noticed first by people who aren't enthusiasts are the ones that have similarities with other composers' works... in this case structurally.

Come on Classic FM, you can play the slow movement as a 'swoon'.

The 8th and the 9th were the first Brian symphonies I ever heard, in 1978. The 8th spoke immediately, but the first movement of the 9th proved to be more difficult. The middle and final movements were easy. Yes, this could be an excellent Prom piece!

[vandermolen]

I like No.9 too. I have a historic Dutton recording as well as the fine Groves version coupled with No.8:
[asin]B003YUWGIM[/asin]