Havergal Brian.

[SymphonicAddict]

I saw a pic of the fellow J. Z. Herrenberg elsewhere and I thought there is a little of resemblance here. No ofense is intended at all, just I couldn't help myself! 

[JBS]

Just for one moment (when I saw your post & Johan's) I wondered what I'd done?!! I can honestly say that there were no clandestine meetings in a derelict warehouse! No other illegal contraband,was involved!! I think it came in a plain,brown,wrapper,though?!!
I must admit,I had this mental picture of you,and Johan;with stacks of Aries Lp's! Was,I,really,the only one?!! That makes me feel good! The thought of some pirate (albeit,a pirate with good taste in music!) lying next to a swimming pool,surrounded by beautiful women;living it up off the back of profits,made from pirated Havergal Brian Lp's and mugs,like me!!!!

Given the size of the Brianite communion, the profits would allow a toddler blow up wading pool and posters from the tabloids....

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I saw a pic of the fellow J. Z. Herrenberg elsewhere and I thought there is a little of resemblance here. No ofense is intended at all, just I couldn't help myself! 

Funny!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Given the size of the Brianite communion, the profits would allow a toddler blow up wading pool and posters from the tabloids....

[vandermolen]

I saw a pic of the fellow J. Z. Herrenberg elsewhere and I thought there is a little of resemblance here. No ofense is intended at all, just I couldn't help myself! 

Uncanny and an obvious choice for the author's photo on Johan's book.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I think my publisher, and innocent readers, would be horrified.

[relm1]

Too much silence here.  I am currently enjoying the Mackerras/RLPO Symphony No. 7.  To me, this feels so regal and English yet quintessentially Brian.  There is the Waltonesque fanfare at the start, the stately Elgar nobility, but of course the Brian diversions and marches.  One light bulb for me just happened.  The sudden juxtaposition between fortissimo and pianissimo is a hallmark of Bruckner too.  All over his symphonies.  Similarly, this was something Robert Simpson who championed Brian was also fond of and was also common in Carl Nielsen.  Brian gets a bad rap for being disjunctive but in a way, much of this is a reference to Bruckner's style that all of these great symphonists reference.   This for example:

https://youtu.be/ZtD8Abtq-3g?t=332

Imagine how jarring this would have been structurally.  Brian's No. 7 is a really great work if someone unfamiliar with Brian needed a single work to get to know him because there is so much of him in here at its most demonstrable.

[vers la flamme]

395 pages on Havergal Brian! He must be a major favorite here...

... all I've heard of his is the famous Gothic symphony, and not all of it. I really did not like it. I understand he wrote many more symphonies, and that he dialed it back with the extravagance following the first.

What are some of his major works? In other words, what has he done that has made him so beloved here? Don't tell me all this discussion is around the Gothic symphony...

[relm1]

395 pages on Havergal Brian! He must be a major favorite here...

No, we just repeat ourselves alot.

... all I've heard of his is the famous Gothic symphony, and not all of it. I really did not like it. I understand he wrote many more symphonies, and that he dialed it back with the extravagance following the first.

What are some of his major works? In other words, what has he done that has made him so beloved here? Don't tell me all this discussion is around the Gothic symphony...

It seems the Gothic grabs you hard or not at all.  I'm the former.  I immediately fell into its spell the first time time I heard it because of its tremendous sonic journey and nonstop inventiveness yet with a dramatic cohesiveness and propulsive development.  It is a marathon and you feel like you've experienced not just work but eras through its span.

But if it isn't for you, I also love his operas and there is a very fine disk of the opera extract from the Tigers I would recommend.  You might also like the English Suites.  Though always distinctively his own, Brian's early music tends to be more firmly routed in English tradition and becomes increasingly individualistic and striving towards brevity as he progressed. 

[relm1]

395 pages on Havergal Brian! He must be a major favorite here...

No, we just repeat ourselves alot.   

... all I've heard of his is the famous Gothic symphony, and not all of it. I really did not like it. I understand he wrote many more symphonies, and that he dialed it back with the extravagance following the first.

What are some of his major works? In other words, what has he done that has made him so beloved here? Don't tell me all this discussion is around the Gothic symphony...

It seems the Gothic grabs you hard or not at all.  I'm the former.  I immediately fell into its spell the first time time I heard it because of its tremendous sonic journey and nonstop inventiveness yet with a dramatic cohesiveness and propulsive development.  It is a marathon and you feel like you've experienced not just work but eras through its span.

But if it isn't for you, I also love his operas and there is a very fine disk of the opera extract from the Tigers I would recommend.  You might also like the English Suites. 

Though always distinctively his own, Brian's early music tends to be more firmly routed in English tradition and quickly becomes individualistic and striving towards brevity as he progressed.  His early symphonies are expansive and later symphonies are taut.  A common characteristic is they tend to favor fragmentary ideas and sudden transitions rather than long drawn development.

[SymphonicAddict]

The Gothic is clearly his opus magnum. It's a real monument to music. I recall the first time I listened to it: simply shattering. Although he seems to have a distinctive voice, I don't like his style that much. I sometimes feel that his orchestration ideas are brusque, too dense and few accurate, somehow I often don't feel hooked by it.

[krummholz]

395 pages on Havergal Brian! He must be a major favorite here...

... all I've heard of his is the famous Gothic symphony, and not all of it. I really did not like it. I understand he wrote many more symphonies, and that he dialed it back with the extravagance following the first.

What are some of his major works? In other words, what has he done that has made him so beloved here? Don't tell me all this discussion is around the Gothic symphony...

Well he wrote 32 numbered symphonies in all, several operas, much other orchestral music, some piano music, organ music, and quite a few songs. About the only medium that he didn't delve into much is chamber music. But whether you would enjoy his other work really depends on what you didn't like about the Gothic. If it was the extravagance, then there is hope, since the Gothic is really one of a kind in that respect. His only other choral symphony was the 4th, the "Siegeslied", and that is extravagant in a different way (full of violent, even bloodthirsty imagery). And after the 4th symphony there is really only one large scale symphony, the 7th. After the 7th they are all much more concise and focused.

It's hard to recommend a Brian symphony without knowing what other styles of music appeal to you. There is a huge range of expression in his music, from the heroic to the pastoral, the funereal to the jocular. His music is often dominated by march rhythms and percussion. He loves to give melodic lines to bass instruments, including low brass. His late music, especially, is mostly contrapuntal and one is often reminded of Bach's 2-part and 3-part inventions. The orchestral colors are constantly changing in a way that some call kaleidoscopic. Some works are very hard to grasp in one or even a few hearings, since they compress a huge amount of music into a short time span.

Brian might simply not be for you - but the Gothic isn't a good indicator either way. Without knowing anything else about what you are looking for, the three Brian symphonies I would recommend to explore first would be #3, #8, and #11, three works that expose different sides of Brian's musical personality. If you like any of those, there's a lot more to sample.

[calyptorhynchus]

As well as writing what might be the largest and longest symphony Brian also wrote one of the shortest, #22, at 9.5 minutes.

If you don't like the Gothic you might not like ##2-4, but in my opinion the following are his masterpieces of his middle and later phases and any of them might appeal: ##7, 8, 9, 10, 16, 21, 22-24 (as a trilogy); 27, 29, 30, 31, 32

I also like the Concerto for Orchestra (Symphony 21.5) and the Cello Concerto.

[kyjo]

Too much silence here.  I am currently enjoying the Mackerras/RLPO Symphony No. 7.  To me, this feels so regal and English yet quintessentially Brian.  There is the Waltonesque fanfare at the start, the stately Elgar nobility, but of course the Brian diversions and marches.  One light bulb for me just happened.  The sudden juxtaposition between fortissimo and pianissimo is a hallmark of Bruckner too.  All over his symphonies.  Similarly, this was something Robert Simpson who championed Brian was also fond of and was also common in Carl Nielsen.  Brian gets a bad rap for being disjunctive but in a way, much of this is a reference to Bruckner's style that all of these great symphonists reference.   This for example:

https://youtu.be/ZtD8Abtq-3g?t=332

Imagine how jarring this would have been structurally.  Brian's No. 7 is a really great work if someone unfamiliar with Brian needed a single work to get to know him because there is so much of him in here at its most demonstrable.

Thanks for the enticing description, Karim. I haven't heard the 7th yet, so I'll be sure to check it out.

[kyjo]

Although he seems to have a distinctive voice, I don't like his style that much. I sometimes feel that his orchestration ideas are brusque, too dense and few accurate, somehow I often don't feel hooked by it.

I'm inclined to agree with this...

[vers la flamme]

As well as writing what might be the largest and longest symphony Brian also wrote one of the shortest, #22, at 9.5 minutes.

If you don't like the Gothic you might not like ##2-4, but in my opinion the following are his masterpieces of his middle and later phases and any of them might appeal: ##7, 8, 9, 10, 16, 21, 22-24 (as a trilogy); 27, 29, 30, 31, 32

I also like the Concerto for Orchestra (Symphony 21.5) and the Cello Concerto.

That is funny. Even shorter than Webern's symphony 

What I didn't like about the Gothic symphony is the extravagance (yes, as someone mentioned) as well as what sounds to me like a perverse density of orchestral texture. Oftentimes the orchestra and chorus sounds like a huge organ playing fortissimo. Eh, either way, I'll probably give it another shot some time, but until then I'll have to check out one of the less ambitious symphonies mentioned. Thanks everyone.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

As well as writing what might be the largest and longest symphony Brian also wrote one of the shortest, #22, at 9.5 minutes.

If you don't like the Gothic you might not like ##2-4, but in my opinion the following are his masterpieces of his middle and later phases and any of them might appeal: ##7, 8, 9, 10, 16, 21, 22-24 (as a trilogy); 27, 29, 30, 31, 32

I also like the Concerto for Orchestra (Symphony 21.5) and the Cello Concerto.

I endorse this message.


Adding: English Suites 1 and 3, the Symphonic Movements from The Tigers, and the Turandot Suite are gorgeous.

[Augustus]

My contact in the ENO orchestra tells me they spent today playing through the orchestral score of HB's Faust, in preparation for next week's recording.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

My contact in the ENO orchestra tells me they spent today playing through the orchestral score of HB's Faust, in preparation for next week's recording.

Excellent news. The Prologue and the Wild Ride are both terrific, so I'm really looking forward to hearing the whole opera.

[calyptorhynchus]

Forgot also to recommend Symphony no.6.