Havergal Brian.

Started by Harry, June 09, 2007, 04:36:53 AM

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lukeottevanger

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on February 15, 2008, 07:16:01 AM
Yeah, could be so. I think it is also shameful how horrendous the sonics were that Marco Polo afforded some of the Brian works (like the Gothic, and also #4 and 12). You get the feeling they didn't exactly put their 'A' team of recording engineers on the job.

Yes, you could be right. OTOH, the Gothic and no 4 are such big works that they present very unusual challenges. Only something like Mahler 8 is comparable, but - and this is the real challenge of the Brian, I think - the contrapuntal complexity is greater in the Brian, making him much more tricky to record, I should imagine. That's not a value judgement, btw, just a statement of fact verifiable by putting the scores side-by-side - in fact, one could just say that Mahler was more pragmatic here and made all his lines easy to follow.

PerfectWagnerite

I think it also has a lot to do with familiarity also. I bet if I listen to the Gothic as many times I listen to Mahler's 9th I would hear a lot more details than I think I hear having only heard it a few times.

lukeottevanger

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on February 15, 2008, 07:39:52 AM
I think it also has a lot to do with familiarity also. I bet if I listen to the Gothic as many times I listen to Mahler's 9th I would hear a lot more details than I think I hear having only heard it a few times.

Undoubtedly true, I think.

lukeottevanger

Maybe this should go under 'purchases today', but I feel it belongs here instead: a minor discovery today, whilst trawling charity shops - the Hull recording of the First English Suite/Fantastic Variations etc., and the LSSO recording of the 22rd Symph, the Fifth English Suite and Psalm 23, all on beautiful, fine condition LPs. £3 each! (There were racks and racks of great stuff, some very rare, but I could only afford some of it today, the Brian obviously part of it)

J.Z. Herrenberg

#124
Quote from: lukeottevanger on February 19, 2008, 04:17:15 AM
Maybe this should go under 'purchases today', but I feel it belongs here instead: a minor discovery today, whilst trawling charity shops - the Hull recording of the First English Suite/Fantastic Variations etc., and the LSSO recording of the 22rd Symph, the Fifth English Suite and Psalm 23, all on beautiful, fine condition LPs. £3 each! (There were racks and racks of great stuff, some very rare, but I could only afford some of it today, the Brian obviously part of it)

Incredible! I know them all. The Hull Youth Orchestra is struggling of course, more than the LSSO. Still - their climax of the Fantastic Variations is better than on the Marco Polo (organ is ad lib., but they have one, which makes it much more Brianic). 'Reverie', in the Fifth English Suite, is a beautiful piece (strings a bit off, but it's better than nothing). And Psalm 23 is done very well.

Ah, this brings back memories...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: lukeottevanger on February 19, 2008, 04:17:15 AM
Maybe this should go under 'purchases today', but I feel it belongs here instead: a minor discovery today, whilst trawling charity shops - the Hull recording of the First English Suite/Fantastic Variations etc., and the LSSO recording of the 22rd Symph, the Fifth English Suite and Psalm 23, all on beautiful, fine condition LPs. £3 each! (There were racks and racks of great stuff, some very rare, but I could only afford some of it today, the Brian obviously part of it)

Great find! I've long had the LSSO LP but never did manage to locate the Hull. Congratulations!

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Dundonnell

Yes, I have those LPs too! Treasured possessions which I rather ignored for many years until I got my old turntable back up and running!

I also have another LP(Cameo Classics GOCLP9012) of the Hull Youth Symphony Orchestra playing "In Memoriam", "For Valour" and the Festal Dance. All of these works have, of course, now been recorded for CD. The advantage of the LPs you have managed to buy are that these are the only versions of the First and Fifth English Suites and Symphony No.22 available.

Every day now I scan the new releases pages looking for the promised Lyrita CD release of the 6th and 16th symphonies. A lot of fans are anxiously awaiting this particular CD!

pjme

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 19, 2008, 06:02:35 AM


Every day now I scan the new releases pages looking for the promised Lyrita CD release of the 6th and 16th symphonies. A lot of fans are anxiously awaiting this particular CD!

Wasn't this Cd promised for February????

Peter

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: pjme on February 19, 2008, 10:38:47 AM
Wasn't this Cd promised for February????

Anything connected with Brian demands patience (and longevity).  ;)

Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

pjme

 ;D Diepe zucht.....Sigh! You're propably right.

So, ..let's see what's on the Radio tonight!

Peter

Dundonnell

Quote from: pjme on February 19, 2008, 10:38:47 AM
Wasn't this Cd promised for February????

Peter

It was! However my CD supplier(MDT of Derby, UK) has just published their March New Releases "Complete List" and there are no new Lyrita on it.

As Jezetha says.."patience and longevity"! I am not sure how much of either I possess :)

Dundonnell

Aha!!  MusicWeb International is advertising 3 new Lyrita releases for 'February 2008'-

Havergal Brian's Symphony No.6 'Sinfonia Tragica' and Arnold Cooke's Symphony No.3(SRCD 295)-I presume that the Brian 16th
     Symphony is being included on the CD although it isn't mentioned! (At 19 minutes for the Brian 6th and 24 minutes for the Cooke the
     CD would be ridiculously short measure without the 16th)

The Violin Concertos by Peter Racine Fricker and Don Banks(both from an old Argo LP) and David Morgan's Violin Concerto(SRCD 276)

Gordon Crosse's Opera "Purgatory"(SRCD 313-CD single available for a limited time only)

These new CDs can be ordered from Musicweb International. Presumably other retailers will be advertsing the new releases shortly.

Patience IS rewarded!!

lukeottevanger

Good news! Thanks for that. My Brian collection, less complete than those of some of you older fellas (  ;D   :P ) because limited to CDs (though I have all those that are available) until my LP finds of this week, is going to fill up nicely with the eventual arrival of this issue. I've longed to hear these works for a long time.

Dundonnell

#133
Quote from: lukeottevanger on February 21, 2008, 05:03:16 AM
Good news! Thanks for that. My Brian collection, less complete than those of some of you older fellas (  ;D   :P ) because limited to CDs (though I have all those that are available) until my LP finds of this week, is going to fill up nicely with the eventual arrival of this issue. I've longed to hear these works for a long time.

You will not be disappointed(I hope!). The 6th and 16th are amongst Brian's finest symphonies-indeed the 16th has some claims to rank as his greatest.
As one of the "older fellas" I have been lucky enough to possess the LP of the two symphonies for 33 years. The performances of both works are superb.
Myer Fredman was/is an exceptionally fine conductor and he did these symphonies proud!

I cannot resist the temptation of quoting the last two sentences of the chapter on the 16th in Malcolm MacDonald's book on the Brian symphonies-

    "This whole coda, in fact, sums up something of what Brian stood for-a dogged, heroic confrontation of chaos and the unknown that could
       transform them into art of the highest power and complexity, could consume them into the very stuff and resources of tradition, and could
       bind them to his will by the absolute and sovereign power of the human imagination. This tremendous symphony, which seems to say most
       of the things worth saying about the world without a single wasted note, triumphantly succeeds in that aim, at every level and all along
       the line."

Some might assert that the language is florid and the sentiment over-emphatic but few would deny that it is hard to resist being, at the very least, intrigued by such an enthusiastic appraisal!


J.Z. Herrenberg

#134
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 21, 2008, 04:57:13 AM
Aha!!  MusicWeb International is advertising 3 new Lyrita releases for 'February 2008'-

Havergal Brian's Symphony No.6 'Sinfonia Tragica' and Arnold Cooke's Symphony No.3(SRCD 295)-I presume that the Brian 16th
     Symphony is being included on the CD although it isn't mentioned! (At 19 minutes for the Brian 6th and 24 minutes for the Cooke the
     CD would be ridiculously short measure without the 16th)


Patience IS rewarded!!

'At last!' the Oldie gasped.

P.S. Just saw Dundonnell's endorsement of the Brian 6 & 16. I agree. And that coda of the Sixteenth is as terrifying as it is triumphant.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

lukeottevanger

I'm one who has salivated over MacDonald's descriptions of many of the symphonies, but these two stand out from particularly even from just reading about them!

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: lukeottevanger on February 21, 2008, 05:40:53 AM
I'm one who has salivated over MacDonald's descriptions of many of the symphonies, but these two stand out from particularly even from just reading about them!

Do you know that MM's books were once all my friends and I had, and I once read his description of the Sixteenth aloud, in lieu of listening to the real thing.... Isn't that sad?!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Jezetha on February 21, 2008, 05:43:42 AM
Do you know that MM's books were once all my friends and I had, and I once read his description of the Sixteenth aloud, in lieu of listening to the real thing.... Isn't that sad?!

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do   ;)  I don't know how many times I read MacDonald's description of the Gothic before I finally heard it.

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 21, 2008, 05:26:19 AM
The 6th and 16th are amongst Brian's finest symphonies-indeed the 16th has some claims to rank as his greatest....

I thought I was alone in considering the 16th to be the greatest of his symphonies. Wonderful place, the web, where great minds come together and think alike  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

not edward

"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"