Havergal Brian.

Started by Harry, June 09, 2007, 04:36:53 AM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

The lady herself...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

tjguitar

I don't even know where to begin with Brian. So many discs to choose from!

Oye...

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: tjguitar on October 25, 2008, 10:39:37 AM
I don't even know where to begin with Brian. So many discs to choose from!

Oye...

For starters:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0jf2yvnm2tj/Brian 8.mp3

(Symphony No. 8 )

and

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wijgqyozmjm/Brian Symphony No. 6 LPO Myer Fredman.mp3

Good luck! No. 8 is tougher than No. 6, btw...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

tjguitar

Many thanks. I have downloaded the 6th.

Dundonnell

Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 11:13:51 AM
For starters:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0jf2yvnm2tj/Brian 8.mp3

(Symphony No. 8 )

and

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wijgqyozmjm/Brian Symphony No. 6 LPO Myer Fredman.mp3

Good luck! No. 8 is tougher than No. 6, btw...

Do you think so, Johan? I am slightly puzzled by that assessment. I always found the 8th and 9th to be amongst HB's most accessible symphonies :)

Lilas Pastia

I listened to these two last week (8 and 9) and am still not sure if I find them "approachable". But at least the recordings certainly make a good case for the music (it's powerful and arresting if anything else).

Brian deserves some label/conductor championship. In this era of completism, here's a case where an enterprising label would have a field day. Add savvy marketing and a reasonable price, and I'd jump for the boxed set ! :D

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 12:50:55 PM
Do you think so, Johan? I am slightly puzzled by that assessment. I always found the 8th and 9th to be amongst HB's most accessible symphonies :)

Don't underestimate the strangeness of Brian's idiom to the uninitiated, Colin. You and I may not have had many difficulties because of a natural affinity, but I don't know what tjguitar is used to. So No. 6 seems an excellent introduction, though it doesn't prepare you for the sterner and grittier glories of HB's more characteristic works (like the 8th and 12th and 16th). I remember I took to the the Eighth immediately, but had to struggle a bit with the Ninth (first movement). Though that is so long ago, most if not all of Brian's doesn't pose any problem to me anymore...

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 25, 2008, 12:58:49 PM
I listened to these two last week (8 and 9) and am still not sure if I find them "approachable". But at least the recordings certainly make a good case for the music (it's powerful and arresting if anything else).

Exactly.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Dundonnell

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 25, 2008, 12:58:49 PM
I listened to these two last week (8 and 9) and am still not sure if I find them "approachable". But at least the recordings certainly make a good case for the music (it's powerful and arresting if anything else).

Brian deserves some label/conductor championship. In this era of completism, here's a case where an enterprising label would have a field day. Add savvy marketing and a reasonable price, and I'd jump for the boxed set ! :D

Oh dear..I could write so much about this-although Johan would do a much better job!

Marco Polo committed itself to recording a complete cycle albeit with a wide range and variety of orchestras and conductors. A number of cds were released but sales were variable. To be honest, the recording of the Gothic in Bratislava cost an aweful lot of money! Nor did Marco Polo market the series or individual cds as well as they could. (These were in the days when the Naxos empire issued full-price Marco Polo and cheap Naxos cds). Funding was obtained from the Rex Foundation of San Francisco(formed by members of the Grateful Dead) for some of the cd issues but I am not sure whether or not that dried up. Anyway, the series ground to a halt some years ago and there seems no likeliehood of more being recorded :( :(

HB symphonies are extremely difficult to play (preferably properly ;D) and for orchestras and conductors to learn. They require a lot of rehearsal time. In these days of global recession....... :(

The irony of course is that if HB had written fewer symphonies it would be more economical for a company to invest the cash!!

Mark G. Simon

Also the apparently conventional harmonic language and thematic gestures make one think one is getting something much more straightforward than is actually the case. I always get this uncomfortable feeling about five minutes into a Brian symphony that "Hey, where the heck am I, I'm lost!"

Dundonnell

#249
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 01:02:41 PM
Don't underestimate the strangeness of Brian's idiom to the uninitiated, Colin. You and I may not have had many difficulties because of a natural affinity, but I don't know what tjguitar is used to. So No. 6 seems an excellent introduction, though it doesn't prepare you for the sterner and grittier glories of HB's more characteristic works (like the 8th and 12th and 16th). I remember I took to the the Eighth immediately, but had to struggle a bit with the Ninth (first movement). Though that is so long ago, most if not all of Brian's doesn't pose any problem to me anymore...

Exactly.

I am duly reproved :-[

You are-of course-quite correct :) One's enthusiasm sometimes runs away with one! "If I think that this is a masterpiece everybody else must do so as well!"

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 01:09:57 PM
Oh dear..I could write so much about this-although Johan would do a much better job!

Not in this case. A very pithy exposition.

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on October 25, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
Also the apparently conventional harmonic language and thematic gestures make one think one is getting something much more straightforward than is actually the case. I always get this uncomfortable feeling about five minutes into a Brian symphony that "Hey, where the heck am I, I'm lost!"

Listening to Brian is an adventure. It is important to feel, though, you are heading somewhere. Those who are attuned to Brian's rather quirky 'logic' don't experience that many difficulties and enjoy the ride. Others feel lost and quit altogether. I can't blame them. There isn't a middle way with Brian - you either love him or leave him.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Christo

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on October 25, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
"Hey, where the heck am I, I'm lost!"

A certain JD, halfway Harwich and Hook of Holland, Force 8, clock moving backwards from 3 to 2, stark darkness, headphones playing Brian's 32nd, drone of the disco aboard... ??
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Christo on October 25, 2008, 01:18:40 PM
A certain JD, halfway Harwich and Hook of Holland, Force 8, clock moving backwards from 3 to 2, stark darkness, headphones playing Brian's 32nd, drone of the disco aboard... ??

Small annotation to this cryptic, Joycean passage - fellow member Vandermolen (JD) is on his way to Holland...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

tjguitar

I love those trumpets one minute into the track in the 6th symphony link that Jezetha posted. :)

Some nice use of mallet percussion in there too.

Hmmmmm. Interesting.

John Copeland

Interesting talk of Brians 'idiom'.  It's an idiom I still can't get past.  Brian is a composer who both baffles and reveals, although what he reveals is often baffling itself!  But the baffling-ness of Brian demands to be heard again and again - his music is that of a Zen-like big time symphonic composer.  We might not know where he's taking us even if we get lost on the way, but when we get to the end of his work we know that every note has been bang in the right place and the entire symphony has resonated a deeper understanding which we ourselves can only wish for.
Brian is in my top ten symphonists of all time.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: mahler10th on October 27, 2008, 06:08:58 AM
Interesting talk of Brians 'idiom'.  It's an idiom I still can't get past.  Brian is a composer who both baffles and reveals, although what he reveals is often baffling itself!  But the baffling-ness of Brian demands to be heard again and again - his music is that of a Zen-like big time symphonic composer.  We might not know where he's taking us even if we get lost on the way, but when we get to the end of his work we know that every note has been bang in the right place and the entire symphony has resonated a deeper understanding which we ourselves can only wish for.
Brian is in my top ten symphonists of all time.

Good post, John! I always get the feeling with Brian he's lowering his bucket into some deep level of his psyche. There is a flow of ideas and emotions there that you seem to hear 'in the raw', as it were. This is what is Expressionist about Brian. The music erupts, flies off tangents, breaks through barriers, a sort of musical stream-of-consciousness, and what keeps the whole thing together is the mystery of the powerful personality behind it all. Only from Symphony No. 18 onwards is Brian trying to order his material in a more traditional (classical) way. But even there his originality and waywardness are in evidence.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J.Z. Herrenberg

In an hour's time I'll meet up with fellow member Vandermolen, in Leiden. So - I'm off!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Guido

I like the emphatic full stop in this thread title.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Dundonnell

Quote from: Jezetha on October 27, 2008, 06:29:09 AM
In an hour's time I'll meet up with fellow member Vandermolen, in Leiden. So - I'm off!

Be sure to give him my regards...if you get this message, of course! :)

springrite

Seems like we have enough people here for a mini Brian Society Chapter, and the first board meeting is about to take place...

Listening to Brian Violin Concerto in the meantime...