Havergal Brian.

Started by Harry, June 09, 2007, 04:36:53 AM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on October 26, 2009, 06:37:40 AM
Released this month (Boult's performance of The Gothic Symphony). Johan/Jezetha will be delighted!

He is (belatedly)!!

Re the Violin Concerto - I think it's one of Brian's most beautiful works. But the first movement isn't easy - there is so much happening, you can lose your way. Of course, Brian compensates by the simplicity of some of the themes, but the textures can be rather rich (I won't say 'thick'...) The second and third movements aren't that difficult. The second is a moving Passacaglia with some violent passages and the final movement is very English and very straightforward (IMO). In all three movements there are dreamy, magical moments, when the music seems to come to a complete standstill. Yes, I like the VC very much. And the playing by Bisengaliev (Christo and I saw him playing the piece in 1995 - that's where we met...) is absolutely superb.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Christo

#361
Quote from: Jezetha on October 28, 2009, 11:39:45 AM
And the playing by Bisengaliev (Christo and I saw him playing the piece in 1995 - that's where we met...) is absolutely superb.

Indeed. We were young, in those days. 8) And live Marat Bisengaliev's playing was even better than in the recording, I seem to recall.  :)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Christo on October 28, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
Indeed. We were young, in those days. 8) And live Marat Bisengaliev's playing was even than in the recording, I seem to recall.  :)

Yes, his live performance was even better. I remember it well, even at my age...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

Quote from: Jezetha on October 28, 2009, 11:39:45 AM
He is (belatedly)!!

Re the Violin Concerto - I think it's one of Brian's most beautiful works. But the first movement isn't easy - there is so much happening, you can lose your way. Of course, Brian compensates by the simplicity of some of the themes, but the textures can be rather rich (I won't say 'thick'...) The second and third movements aren't that difficult. The second is a moving Passacaglia with some violent passages and the final movement is very English and very straightforward (IMO). In all three movements there are dreamy, magical moments, when the music seems to come to a complete standstill. Yes, I like the VC very much. And the playing by Bisengaliev (Christo and I saw him playing the piece in 1995 - that's where we met...) is absolutely superb.

OK, I shall have another battle with the Violin Concerto.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on October 28, 2009, 01:50:29 PM
OK, I shall have another battle with the Violin Concerto.

Excellent, Jeffrey.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Christo

           

David Hurwitz's verdict on Classicstoday:

QuoteHavergal Brian actually was an interesting and characterful composer, not that you'd know it from this disgusting train wreck of a performance. Yes, it's "legendary", and it enjoyed a previous existence on, among other things, a dim Aries pirate LP that led one to hope that the original tapes sounded better. They don't, at least not such as would make any difference. The limited stereo broadcast sonics (from 1966) can't begin to clarify the score's textural complexities, while Boult, never the most incisive of conductors, holds the reins slackly and seems not to know the difference between melody and accompaniment--to the extent that one can tell, that is. He gets through the first three orchestral movements by playing them relatively quickly and hoping for the best, but when the choruses come in the result is simply mud, a totally chaotic mess of impenetrable noise. If you have the Marco Polo (now Naxos) recording, featuring most of the population of Bratislava, you will experience a much cleaner and more powerful (though far from perfect) sense of what the music is about. Life is too short for this.

... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Renfield

I'm sure the population of Bratislava would be as offended as Sir Adrian Boult's ghost.

Lethevich

Even in the un-remastered version I heard, the Boult was finer. The sound wasn't that bad - the choral transparency isn't perfect, but so much of the Marco Polo recording was imperfect as well... I'd say that the two compliment each other well, although I'd sacrifice ten Mahler recordings at the altar to the music gods to hear it in modern sound with a modern orchestra.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Christo on February 09, 2010, 10:12:51 AM
           

David Hurwitz's verdict on Classicstoday:


Life is too short to read such rubbish. I know the Boult Gothic, the Schmidt Gothic and the Lenard Gothic back to front. Boult has always impressed me the most. As Sarah says, even in its unremastered guise you can hear the quality of his interpretation (I still have to hear the Testament). Remember - there was and is no performing tradition. That not everything is perfect, of course! The choruses in the Te Deum aren't transparant-sounding, perhaps they never will be, because that is part of Brian's (flawed?) intention. But to say Boult 'seems not to know the difference between melody and accompaniment' is the cheap jibe of a hack.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Jezetha on February 12, 2010, 08:17:34 AM

Life is too short to read such rubbish. I know the Boult Gothic, the Schmidt Gothic and the Lenard Gothic back to front. Boult has always impressed me the most. As Sarah says, even in its unremastered guise you can hear the quality of his interpretation (I still have to hear the Testament). Remember - there was and is no performing tradition. That not everything is perfect, of course! The choruses in the Te Deum aren't transparant-sounding, perhaps they never will be, because that is part of Brian's (flawed?) intention. But to say Boult 'seems not to know the difference between melody and accompaniment' is the cheap jibe of a hack.

Lenard wins on sound quality of the recording but Boult wins the gold medal for interpretation...except for the Vivace third movement. I think Lenard nails it. Boult's leap across the harmonic universe at the climax just deosn't raise the goosebumps; sounds anemic next to Lenard. Bottomline: both recordings are essential for Brian fanatics.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 13, 2010, 05:54:02 AM
Lenard wins on sound quality of the recording but Boult wins the gold medal for interpretation...except for the Vivace third movement. I think Lenard nails it. Boult's leap across the harmonic universe at the climax just deosn't raise the goosebumps; sounds anemic next to Lenard. Bottomline: both recordings are essential for Brian fanatics.

Sarge


I know the climax of the Vivace is your all-time 'greatest moment in music', Sarge. No goosebumps there is a very bad sign indeed... But one thing that always bothers me about the Lenard (and has detracted me from full enjoyment) - the bizarre xylophone solo in the build-up is incomplete, it simply stops along the way. In the Boult it's all there... I'll listen again to the two recordings and see how they compare. 
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Jezetha on February 14, 2010, 05:46:38 AM

I know the climax of the Vivace is your all-time 'greatest moment in music', Sarge. No goosebumps there is a very bad sign indeed... But one thing that always bothers me about the Lenard (and has detracted me from full enjoyment) - the bizarre xylophone solo in the build-up is incomplete, it simply stops along the way. In the Boult it's all there... I'll listen again to the two recordings and see how they compare.

I hadn't noticed that. I'll listen again too.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

snyprrr

obsessing over xylophone solos?,...hmmm...

... is the Gothic for me?,hmmm...

Still haven't heard a Brian symphony,... yet!

vandermolen

I think that we need to discuss the wind machine  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Lethevich

Snips - If you like Mahler, give the Gothic a try - but the rest are in an increasingly different style, especially after the 4th. The best way in is the budget EMI twofer with 7-9, etc.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: vandermolen on February 15, 2010, 12:46:10 AM
I think that we need to discuss the wind machine  ;D


I'm game!  :D


Quote from: Lethe on February 15, 2010, 12:50:29 AM
Snips - If you like Mahler, give the Gothic a try - but the rest are in an increasingly different style, especially after the 4th. The best way in is the budget EMI twofer with 7-9, etc.


Indeed. But why not do this - download these three symphonies, snyprrr, and see what you make of them (and listen out for the wind machine in No. 10!):
 
8th: http://www.mediafire.com/?0jf2yvnm2tj
9th: http://www.mediafire.com/?pngtzmyzlyg
10th: http://www.mediafire.com/?xztyigy2wjz
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Daverz

It may have come up somehwere in these 19 pages, but I was ready to give up on Brian until I heard his Symphony No. 6 "Sinfonia Tragica" on Lyrita.  That's what I'd suggest as a starting place for anyone curious about him.

vandermolen

Quote from: Daverz on February 15, 2010, 02:27:12 AM
It may have come up somehwere in these 19 pages, but I was ready to give up on Brian until I heard his Symphony No. 6 "Sinfonia Tragica" on Lyrita.  That's what I'd suggest as a starting place for anyone curious about him.

Did you hear Symphony No 8? My favourite and quite approachable.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

snyprrr

Quote from: vandermolen on February 15, 2010, 12:46:10 AM
I think that we need to discuss the wind machine  ;D

BRING-IT-ON!! :P :P :P



Quote from: Lethe on February 15, 2010, 12:50:29 AM
Snips - If you like Mahler, give the Gothic a try - but the rest are in an increasingly different style, especially after the 4th. The best way in is the budget EMI twofer with 7-9, etc.

Sounds like Myaskovsky, perhaps (not the music, the trajectory)?



I will listen to those downloads, thank you.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Daverz on February 15, 2010, 02:27:12 AM
It may have come up somehwere in these 19 pages, but I was ready to give up on Brian until I heard his Symphony No. 6 "Sinfonia Tragica" on Lyrita.  That's what I'd suggest as a starting place for anyone curious about him.


Okay, let's give the non-converted a chance...


Symphony No. 6, 'Sinfonia Tragica': http://www.mediafire.com/?wijgqyozmjm
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato