Havergal Brian.

[karlhenning]

You apply the same argument to avoid listening to Mozart (41 symphonies) or Haydn (104)?

I shan't answer for Scarps (I cannot), but I'll adopt the question.

I genuinely enjoyed listening to the start of Haydn's cycle (though I lost discipline, and stopped half-way-ish, nor have I taken it back up yet). Personally, I don't think I could make time for the Mozart juvenilia; but I have no quarrel to the man who can.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks for all the lovely comments! First I'm making coffee and then I'll check this thread to see if there is anything I'd like to add...

[Scarpia]

You apply the same argument to avoid listening to Mozart (41 symphonies) or Haydn (104)?

Not quite the same.  Mozart and Haydn were the most well known composers of their era, and their works were widely performed and admired.  If you want to listen to music of that period you start with Mozart and Haydn and it widely known what their principal works are.  In Brian we have someone who toiled away writing symphony after symphony after symphony, 32 in all, without any of it ever being performed.  Presumably whatever original ideas he had were diluted in hours and hours and hours of music.  I imagine compositional diarrhea. 

Beyond that, I have a similar problem with Haydn to some extent.  I have the Dorati cycle, which I am trying to make my way through, but when I am done I don't think I will ever listen to 90% of it again.  The London, Paris, and a few noteworthy early symphonies will serve me.  For Mozart, 41, 40, 39, 38, 35, 34, 33, 32 are interesting, the rest are interchangeable.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I shan't answer for Scarps (I cannot), but I'll adopt the question.

I genuinely enjoyed listening to the start of Haydn's cycle (though I lost discipline, and stopped half-way-ish, nor have I taken it back up yet). Personally, I don't think I could make time for the Mozart juvenilia; but I have no quarrel to the man who can.

Well, at least you have listened to some symphonies by both composers despite their enormous output. I understand avoiding early Mozart (although I personally find the pre-K.183 symphonies delightful and listen to them often) but Brian began composition on his first symphony, the Gothic, in 1919 when he was 43 years old and finished it eight years later. All his symphonies are works of maturity so Scarps can't use that excuse. And despite the sheer amount of symphonies, choosing a few to sample isn't difficult because only a handful have had truly great performances committed to disc. The EMI twofer (7, 8, 9 and 31) plus the Naxos Gothic will give one a good taste of the composer for very little outlay.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Presumably whatever original ideas he had were diluted in hours and hours and hours of music.

How can you possibly presume that when you haven't even heard any of his music? The man's creative life lasted nearly 75 years! Compared to Haydn or Bach his output is miniscule.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

All his symphonies are works of maturity so Scarps can't use that excuse.

I wasn't aware that I need to provide an excuse for every composer I don't listen to.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I wasn't aware that I need to provide an excuse for every composer I don't listen to.   

Dude, you invaded this thread in a most troll-like manner so you better have an excuse 

Sarge, locking and loading the heavy weapons

[karlhenning]

Well, at least you have listened to some symphonies by both composers despite their enormous output. I understand avoiding early Mozart (although I personally find the pre-K.183 symphonies delightful and listen to them often) but Brian began composition on his first symphony, the Gothic, in 1919 when he was 43 years old and finished it eight years later. All his symphonies are works of maturity so Scarps can't use that excuse. And despite the sheer amount of symphonies, choosing a few to sample isn't difficult because only a handful have had truly great performances committed to disc. The EMI twofer (7, 8, 9 and 31) plus the Naxos Gothic will give one a good taste of the composer for very little outlay.

Thanks, Sarge.  Of course, this composer makes a regular practice of listening to music he's never listened to before . . . so there's no reason not to make that new music Brian at some point.

[Scarpia]

Dude, you invaded this thread in a most troll-like manner so you better have an excuse 

Sarge, locking and loading the heavy weapons

Yikes!  Well, I did not come with troll-like intentions.  It's not specific to Brian.  Probably 75% of my listening these days is music I have never heard before, but when I see 32 symphonies, I just feel despair.    I might have tried that EMI 2-fer, but it is out of print and scarce.  I will withdraw so you can reestablish an appropriate mood of Brian adulation.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Hello to everyone from a newbie.

Happy memories of the days when I was a member of the HBS. Especially that evening back in - 1990 was it? - when I sat in Birmingham Town Hall to hear the "Orchestra of the Composers' Platform" play Brian's 3rd Symphony. This was memorable partly because of the music, but mainly because it's the only concert I've ever been to where the orchestra significantly outnumbered the audience!

(...)

What a great little work No. 11 is! A deeply thoughtful adagio to kick things off, then a childlike and jovial central movement, and a bustling little march to finish. Fairly lighthearted and easy on the ear for Brian, this could be a nice introduction to his symphonies for the uninitiated.

Hello, Klaatu!


You might have seen me in May 1987 in Birmingham - I was there. I have been a member of the HBS since December 1983. Were you in the hired coach that took all the members from Surrey through London Victoria to B'ham?... As for No. 11, I have a special affection for it, too.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Just a general and personal intro to Brian for those who might be interested...


Havergal Brian's music is idiosyncratic. It isn't easy listening, it doesn't come pre-packaged with reams of persuasive recommendations by the great and the good. There is no performance tradition to speak of. So, in a sense, you're on your own in evaluating this unusual music, hampered too by (many) readings that only scratch the surface of what this music - when performed really well - can express.


Brian wrote 32 symphonies, from 1919 to 1968. He began in his early forties and ended in his early nineties. This journey is fascinating for those receptive to it. Brian was his own man from an early age, but he did develop. Although the first 4 symphonies are on a grand scale, Brian's way of expressing himself is always very laconic, though intense. There is always a lot going on. He loves polyphony and he likes to keep things moving. His music can sound as of written for some film of the mind. Once you are gripped by it, you are gripped for life.


I know all the symphonies and I know them virtually by heart. If I have to choose 'the best', I get into difficulties, because every single one of them has its own unique moments of power and beauty. But if you want to get an idea of what Brian can do, if you want to get a  sense of his range, try symphonies 6, 8, 10 and 16, written between 1948 and 1960. They are an excellent introduction to his very personal style.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/wijgqyozmjm/Brian%20Symphony%20No.%206%20LPO%20Myer%20Fredman.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/0jf2yvnm2tj/Brian%208.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/xztyigy2wjz/Brian%2010.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/i0uuiz32kjd/Brian%20Symphony%20No.%2016%20LPO%20Myer%20Fredman.mp3

[karlhenning]

. . . I know all the symphonies and I know them virtually by heart.

That is really marvelous!  Only judging by the (from this senator's standpoint) obscurity of the composer and scarcity of recordings.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That is really marvelous!  Only judging by the (from this senator's standpoint) obscurity of the composer and scarcity of recordings.

Well, every symphony has been performed at least once (many for and by the BBC). The past few months especially, I've had all of the symphonies on my mp3 player to give me inspiration!

[Albion]

Many thanks to the various members who have provided links and help in obtaining recordings of these great works - please could anybody help with mp3 audio files of:

Symphony 21 (LSO/ Downes, 14/1/69 or LSSO/ Pinkett)

Cello Concerto (Igloi/ Polyphonia/ Boult, 5/2/71)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Many thanks to the various members who have provided links and help in obtaining recordings of these great works - please could anybody help with mp3 audio files of:

Symphony 21 (LSO/ Downes, 14/1/69 or LSSO/ Pinkett)

Cello Concerto (Igloi/ Polyphonia/ Boult, 5/2/71)

I can offer you #21 (LSSO/Pinkett). Watch this space... I don't have the Cello Concerto, BUT - it has been recorded and will be issued in a few months' time.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/2a4nzk4pz9br4az/Brian%2021-I.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/ruvkmegaqui6xc7/Brian%2021-II.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/ibvij45hg1zh1os/Brian%2021-III.mp3


http://www.mediafire.com/file/b2w9u1ladnc6i9t/Brian%2021-IV.mp3

[vandermolen]

I have just played HB Symphony No 10 (Loughran LSSO) on Unicorn in celebration of both Jezetha's forthcoming book/s and his grand return to the Forum. In his essay on Brian in the Penguin book 'The Symphony; Elgar to the Present Day', Harold Truscott (also the composer of a fine Symphony) wrote of Havergal Brian's 10th symphony that '...the psychological storm that shapes it gives way at length to a mysterious sense of victory, grim and hard-won, but enduring.' A good omen I feel for Jezetha's perseverance. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, Jeffrey. It is that quality of dogged perseverance which I have always admired in Brian and which has really inspired me the last 30 years. It will be interesting to see whether I - after completing my 'Gothic' - will also live to a ripe 96, completing another 31 novels in the process!

[Klaatu]

Hello, Klaatu!


You might have seen me in May 1987 in Birmingham - I was there. I have been a member of the HBS since December 1983. Were you in the hired coach that took all the members from Surrey through London Victoria to B'ham?... As for No. 11, I have a special affection for it, too.

Hi Jezetha!

Nope, I wasn't on the coach - I was living in Birmingham at the time and drove to the gig solo (well, with my mate Phil).

BTW, thanks for alerting me to the forthcoming release of Brian 10 with the RSNO - great news; knew Dutton would come up trumps!

PS Scarpia -
My advice would be to start with the Lyrita reissue of Brian 6 and 16. Simply because I think they're to date the best played versions of any Brian works. Also because they show the composer at his most lyrical (No 6) and his most impenetrable (No 16) - a work which I hated on first hearing but absolutely love now! (You really have to learn your way into this stuff; No 16 is for me one of HB's very greatest works.)

The added bonus is that if you can't stand the Brian pieces the disc also sports a fine performance of Cooke's 3rd!

[karlhenning]

Thanks, Jeffrey. It is that quality of dogged perseverance which I have always admired in Brian and which has really inspired me the last 30 years. It will be interesting to see whether I - after completing my 'Gothic' - will also live to a ripe 96, completing another 31 novels in the process!

Many years!

[Albion]

I can offer you #21 (LSSO/Pinkett). Watch this space... I don't have the Cello Concerto, BUT - it has been recorded and will be issued in a few months' time.

Jezetha, thanks very much for sharing these files - now I can begin systematically listening through the entire canon of 32, headphones clamped to head and Macdonald propped up in front of me! Wonderful news about the Cello Concerto - it looks as though it really is going to be a good year for HB!