Havergal Brian.

[karlhenning]

I, too, am a great believer in how living with a piece as a performer in the ensemble is a powerful lever into the life of the music.

[cilgwyn]

A bit bigger & that 'Havergal Brian' bus would make a good desktop!

[Luke]

A good theory Luke. I played the Robin Orr Symphony and Checkmate with the LSSO and love them both. Maybe I wouldn't feel the same had I not had the "inside" experience as a youth. Where your theory fails is that my affection for the 10th is matched by my total dislike of the 21st. Most of the LSSO shared this view, strangley enough. 10 appealed but 21 didn't.

Except that, as I said, I can understand a liking for a 10 and a dislike for 21 - I'd find that very natural, they are in fairly divergent styles and 21 is much more laconic and thorny. It's more the liking for 10 and the dislike of the stylistically similar 8 which prompted my theory.

I hear nothing in the 8th to inspire. Indeed, I listened to it again 10 minutes ago and and got absolutely nothing out of it despite the advocacy of Groves. Stange, isn't it? The opening to 10 is one of the most gripping ideas in ALL music. It's just brilliant.

It is, that's true. But surely that odd little low brass + drums march-motive juxtaposed to those enormous empty spaces + horn calls is an equally gripping idea? (I speak of number 8 of course). As MM says, Brian has a way with arresting opening ideas - and as he also says, that of 8 is one of the most arresting and original of all.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

A bit bigger & that 'Havergal Brian' bus would make a good desktop!

Here are members of The Southdown Enthusiasts' Club spotting the HB bus...

[cilgwyn]

It makes makes a change from trainspotting!
But would they get on a 'Harrison Birtwistle' bus?!!!
  Incidentally, my Hull Youth SO 2cd set finally arrived. As I half expected 'very good condition' was a broken hinge & a cd which 'froze & skipped' about 2 min 35 secs in (cd 2). The booklet & inserts were fine,however. Anyway,to cut a longer story short I put the faulty cd on my pc & made a cd-r which works perfectly in my cd player. So all in all I AM, strange as it may seem, very pleased with my purchase as sellers usually ask allot of money for this. Also,listening to the recordings brought back happy memories of the excitement of youthful discovery,when rarities like this were generally 'snatched' from R3 broadcasts or heard via C90 cassettes brought by the village postman. Furthermore,the commitment and zeal of these pioneers REALLY shines through. These recordings really AREN't just for the charity shop or archive interest only,these are performances that really ARE worth hearing even if the string section IS being audibly pushed way beyond Their limit. (Even I have to admit there are quite a few moments when you have to grit your teeth a little!*)
Such a pity their recording project konked out. I understand their 'recording' of Holbrooke was a bit of a disaster. Perhaps someone here could fill me in a little on some of the background here & what actually happened. Was 'The Song of Gwyn ap Nudd' (I think that's what it was) really that bad?
Also,I don't want to turn this into A Bantock thread,but very briefly has anybody ever heard this. It was released on Lp.

PS: Now to get compensation from that seller!!!

PS2: I hadn't heard those lovely Herrick settings before. (For some wierd reason I never got the entire set) A new recording is surely way overdue,as does the 'English Suite No 1' which has some gorgeous writing in it. (Please,pleeease let someone find his 'English Suite No 2!)

* like finger nails on a school blackboard!!!!

[cilgwyn]

PS3! Even I might like buses a little better if they named ours after Havergal Brian. But I don't think even local boy William Mathias  has ever got a bus named after him & I quite like his music,too!

[karlhenning]

A Boston bus would have to be named William Billings, I think . . . .

[cilgwyn]

Or take a ride on the Ethel Smyth!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Or take a ride on the Ethel Smyth!

Reminds me of a thing that amused RVW in a musical lexicon - 'Harriet Cohen, see under: Arnold Bax'.

[karlhenning]

Oh, dear, dear, dear... 

[cilgwyn]

I must say I wAS tempted to word that a little more provocatively!

[cilgwyn]

Confound that 'w'!

[John Whitmore]

Cilgwyn, you mention your compatriot Bill Mathias. I quite like his stuff. He has his own sound world and although there's nothing earth shattering to be found it is all very well crafted and user friendly. I assume you know the Sinfonietta from 1966. Another one of those pieces that landed on the LSSO music stands in hand written parts early in 1967. The first public performance was in Leicester in May 1967 under the direction of the composer. Here's a link to the LSSO Pye recording also conducted by the composer along with the Prince Charles Suite, Ridout's Concertante Music and Arnold's Divertimento. This was a single take effort one afternoon in De Montfort Hall in July 1967.

http://www.mediafire.com/?z9a9yk13d8d95

[vandermolen]

Nice bus. Is it designed with Brian's music in mind? Noisy, unreliable, erratic, awkward gear changes, makes surprse turns at the most unexpected times, not many people appreciate it, rarely used by the bus company and has it's own on-line thread entitled "A great, unappreciated British bus". I'm in a mischievous mood today so please don't be offended. Listened to the LSSO 10th again last night followd by the new version. Had the LSSO been in tune they would win hands down. More tension and atmosphere. More sense of occasion.  I blame Eric Pinkett for not teaching us properly. On the advice of this thread I also gave the 8th yet another chance. Sorry, didn't like it. Johan, I've also ploughed through your files and listened again. Still don't get it. Maybe this isn't for me. I prefer the Robin Orr and Simpson's symphonies by a huge distance. Must go, I want to listen to The Midsummer Marriage.

Ah, but the end of No 8 is my favourite Brian ending - mysterious, searching,poignant and oddly moving

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ah, but the end of No 8 is my favourite Brian ending - mysterious, searching,poignant and oddly moving

I agree. I just listened to that ending again. Everything is still and held in brooding suspension, but you sense the coming of night. I was suddenly strongly reminded of the classic final lines of Wallace Stevens's 'Sunday Morning', itself a searching poem about belief and unbelief:


We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.
Deer walk upon our mountains, and the quail
Whistle about us their spontaneous cries;
Sweet berries ripen in the wilderness;
And, in the isolation of the sky,
At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings.

[vandermolen]

I agree. I just listened to that ending again. Everything is still and held in brooding suspension, but you sense the coming of night. I was suddenly strongly reminded of the classic final lines of Wallace Stevens's 'Sunday Morning', itself a searching poem about belief and unbelief:


We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.
Deer walk upon our mountains, and the quail
Whistle about us their spontaneous cries;
Sweet berries ripen in the wilderness;
And, in the isolation of the sky,
At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings.

Great poem Johan - never heard of it before and yes, it does seem appropriate for the ending of Brian's 8th Symphony. I'm writing to Brighton Municipal Bus Company to insist that they play Brian's 8th Symphony as a continuous loop on their 'Havergal Brian' bus - a treat for the early morning rush hour commuters and school children 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I'm writing to Brighton Municipal Bus Company to insist that they play Brian's 8th Symphony as a continuous loop on their 'Havergal Brian' bus - a treat for the early morning rush hour commuters and school children 

Makes sense. 

[cilgwyn]

Ok,just back from 'hyperlink boot camp'!
Regarding Mathias. I like his music. Also the way allot of his music reflects his love of jazz. Definately underrated,although not an original like HB,to whom this thread is indeed dedicated. I didn't know he had any association of any kind with the LSSO,so it's rather funny I brought his name up. And talkng about funny,but not funny ha! ha! Funnily enough,I got hold of another Welshman,Daniel Jones's Symphony No 2. While copying it to a cd-r I found to my dismay that Grace Williams First Symphony was too long to fit,so I added Hoddinott's Seventh for organ & orchestra. Not a composer I usually warm too,but this,to use a decidely unintellectual term,is a bit of a cracker! And a little on the 'Gothicky' side,itself.
   Back to the subject of this thread! I have been enjoying the Hull Youth in their new cd incarnation & I think they sound even better than they did before. Although,at the same time.one part of me keeps thinking that this is the sort of cd reissue that confirms Lp enthusiasts feelings that good old vinyl sounds more lifelike.  I'm still a happy bunny though!

[cilgwyn]

I'm no engineer,but the sound quality reminds me a little of some of those very early Chandos cd's.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ok,just back from 'hyperlink boot camp'!

Poor you!

I'm no engineer,but the sound quality reminds me a little of some of those very early Chandos cd's.

Agreed. The music has room to breathe in.