Havergal Brian.

[cilgwyn]

And Havergal Brian ISN'T a neglected composer here!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

And Havergal Brian ISN'T a neglected composer here!

No, and this has even come to the attention of John Grimshaw, Chairman of the Havergal Brian Society. He finds it, he wrote to me, "amazing how long the Brian thread is when compared to many other composers!" But as Luke wrote earlier - there is still so much to discover and discuss. If this planet lasts another century, things might look very different for Brian in 2111...

[Scarpia]

I actually have a Brian disc in my shopping cart.

[asin]B0014FLGRQ[/asin]

[Lethevich]

That disc is a bulletproof choice - even if you don't find immediate access to Brian's style, only a puppy-drowner could dislike Cooke's 3rd

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am awe-struck, Scarpia. The Brianic world awaits your verdict with bated breath...

[cilgwyn]

If you click on the album (above) the Amazon reviewer describes Brian's Symphony No 16 as mostly 'atonal rambling'!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

If you click on the album (above) the Amazon reviewer describes Brian's Symphony No 16 as mostly 'atonal rambling'!

The perpetrator is a P. Weber, from LA. Brian Vigilantes will know what to do - play No. 16 to the man as often as is needed to get him see the error of his way.

[cilgwyn]

I suppose some of Brian's later music does push the boundaries a little,but atonal? Maybe I'll have another go at my Roger Sessions cd. Now he IS atonal! (The only atonal cd in my collection. I'm open minded,but it just doesn't do anything for me).

[karlhenning]

"Atonal" is one of those words which often gets slung about by people who don't actually understand what it means ; )

[cilgwyn]

Ignorance is bliss.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ignorance is Bliss.

Knowledge is Brian.

[Brian]

If you click on the album (above) the Amazon reviewer describes Brian's Symphony No 16 as mostly 'atonal rambling'!

What, no honking?

Knowledge is Brian.

0:)

[Luke]

I suppose some of Brian's later music does push the boundaries a little,but atonal?

No, he isn't, not even at his most extreme (I'm not sure that even the final crazy brass+timpani flurried in the Gothic aren't essentially tonal, despite everything). It's the elipticality and compression of Brian's thought which can confuse the ear, harmonically - but in fact, as a harmonist, looked at purely 'vertically,' he's not extreme at all*. It's not the chords themselves that produce 'the Brian sound' but the speed and fluidity with which they move.

* like Janacek, in this - the chords are mostly triads in both, in fact.

[Scarpia]

"Atonal" is one of those words which often gets slung about by people who don't actually understand what it means ; )

But they're the ones who really experience music the most deeply.   0:)

[karlhenning]

Good thing I hadn't just taken a sip of my coffee!

[cilgwyn]

And can we please have a cycle of Roger Sessions symphonies. Seriously,Sessions IS an interesting composer,but sporadic helpings of just two or three symphonies,however well performed & recording,REALLY don't help. With a composer like Sessions you REALLY need to be able to follow the way his musical though processes evolve.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

No, he isn't, not even at his most extreme (I'm not sure that even the final crazy brass+timpani flurried in the Gothic aren't essentially tonal, despite everything). It's the elipticality and compression of Brian's thought which can confuse the ear, harmonically - but in fact, as a harmonist, looked at purely 'vertically,' he's not extreme at all*. It's not the chords themselves that produce 'the Brian sound' but the speed and fluidity with which they move.

* like Janacek, in this - the chords are mostly triads in both, in fact.

Correct. The biggest stumbling block is understanding Brian's way of thinking and structuring. And I must say - even I, who have no difficulties at all with his idiom, can't really put clearly into words how every section fits into the whole, and how and why Brian jumps from one thing to another. In his best works it all feels natural. Take the Concerto for Orchestra, just released by Dutton - how Brian manages to start out as grimly as he does and still end the work 'logically' in the most festive manner, I can't understand rationally, but I can feel it.

[Mirror Image]

You know I find it very curious that a company like CPO hasn't undertaken a Brian symphony cycle. It seems like this would be right up the label's alley? I mean they seem to make a habit of promoting more neglected composer's works. I mean they recorded the symphonies of Milhaud, Pettersson, Atterburg, Rangstrom, Frankel, etc., why can't they record Brian? The SWR Radio Symphony Orchestra would be the ideal orchestra for Brian I think. They have a great brass section.

[Scarpia]

You know I find it very curious that a company like CPO hasn't undertaken a Brian symphony cycle. It seems like this would be right up the label's alley? I mean they seem to make a habit of promoting more neglected composer's works. I mean they recorded the symphonies of Milhaud, Pettersson, Atterburg, Rangstrom, Frankel, etc., why can't they record Brian? The SWR Radio Symphony Orchestra would be the ideal orchestra for Brian I think. They have a great brass section.

Well, I think there would no problem mounting a Brian cycle if enthusiasm for Brian on this board were matched in the world at large.  Naxos started a Brian cycle but was unable to sustain it.  If you consider the scope of Naxos's recording program, that says something.

[Mirror Image]

Well, I think there would no problem mounting a Brian cycle if enthusiasm for Brian on this board were matched in the world at large.  Naxos started a Brian cycle but was unable to sustain it.  If you consider the scope of Naxos's recording program, that says something.

Yes, I realize and understand Brian's neglect, but the same could be said for Pettersson, Atterberg, etc. and they're cycles were recorded. I don't know many people who are enthusiastic about Pettersson's music, do you? My point is CPO seems to be a label for neglected composer's music whether the works were popular during their lifetimes or not. I think they really need to do a cycle.