Havergal Brian.

Started by Harry, June 09, 2007, 04:36:53 AM

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Hattoff

Yes, there is more to Brian's music than just getting it right :P

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 19, 2011, 08:50:55 PM
 I own all the Naxos and Hyperion recordings so far of Brian's music. I'm anxiously awaiting that Toccata disc that has been mentioned previously in this thread.
 
 Anyway, getting back to the music, I find Brian's use of brass just incredible. Yes, sometimes his orchestration can be thick, but there is such drive, passion, and mystery to this man's music. I shall be revisiting all of the recordings I own soon.

 MI, if you are revisiting your recordings, the performances of the Violin Concerto, and symphonies 11 (first movement too fast, though), 12, 15, 17, 20, 25, 32 are good. I know your budget won't be limitless, but two CDs are essential in any Brian collection - the Lyrita with 6 & 16 and the new Dutton with symphonies 10 & 30, the Concerto for Orchestra and English Suite No. 3...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J.Z. Herrenberg

I forgot the biggest elephant in the room - The Gothic!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Luke

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on April 19, 2011, 11:48:13 PM
but two CDs are essential in any Brian collection - the Lyrita with 6 & 16 and the new Dutton with symphonies 10 & 30, the Concerto for Orchestra and English Suite No. 3...

don't forget (I know you wouldn't, though!) the Groves/Mackerras twofer - 7, 8, 9, and 31 + The Tinker's Wedding, very fine performances of some of Brian's very finest works. To have the sequence 7-9 available in such quality in one place is a real dream.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Luke on April 19, 2011, 11:58:22 PM
don't forget (I know you wouldn't, though!) the Groves/Mackerras twofer - 7, 8, 9, and 31 + The Tinker's Wedding, very fine performances of some of Brian's very finest works. To have the sequence 7-9 available in such quality in one place is a real dream.


Agreed, of course! I didn't mention it, because it's OOP, more's the pity.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Luke

It's a crime, I know. But one can still get hold of it easily enough. There are 5 copies on amazon.uk at the moment, cheapest £15 - an essential purchase for anyone remotely interested in Brian or, indeed, in the 20th century symphony, I'd have thought.

cilgwyn

You've got to keep on looking. I was lucky,I got mine from a seller for about £2.00 plus p&p. It was so cheap I thought there would be something wrong with it! But it was in excellent condition. Of course I had the Lp's years ago. I wish I'd hung onto them really,but I never seem to have enough room! Or I've got the big bad wolf banging at my door.
The original emi Lp had a wonderful photograph of Brian on the cover. A very striking cover image.
Some very good photographs were taken of Brian towards the end of his life,after his belated re-discovery. ( But as the old saying goes,better late than never).
I suppose Brian was pretty lucky compared to the embittered Joseph Holbrooke.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: cilgwyn on April 20, 2011, 02:32:40 AM
I suppose Brian was pretty lucky compared to the embittered Joseph Holbrooke.


Brian had the luck to live to a ripe old age. Holbrooke had more ego, was pushy, and didn't succeed, whereas Brian forged ahead regardless of outward success and realised his dream completely.


A real artist. And an inspiration.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

cilgwyn

Bantock,Bowen & Brian all seemed to have understood that creative success isn't just about personal gain. Remember that interview where Brian was asked whether he considered himself a failiure? I haven't got a transcription to hand,but I remember him telling the interviewer that he felt he had achieved everything he had set out to do. I think Brian had some aspirations early on in his career,but later on he realised that his main fulfillment in life was the act of composition.
I find some of Holbrooke's music intriguing & would have to hear some of his most important works,like 'Apollo & the Seaman' before I can really access the value of his music. I also feel a little sorry for the man,underneath all that ranting & vindictiveness he was very supportive towards his fellow composers,so I think there was some decency in the man somewhere along the line. On the other hand I have to agree with some of the dreaded David Hurwitz's comments about a lack of truly memorable thematic material & of allot of grand sounding rhetoric & gestures that ultimately seem to go nowhere. On the plus side,he DID draw some of his inspiration from living in Wales,he certainly had a flair for colourful orchestration & atmosphere & his life would probably provide allot of colourful material for a biographer. Also,his son Gwydion Brooke once sent me a very nice letter & a free Lp of his dad's music! If only he could have been a little (ALLOT!) more philosophical!
  Having said all that,I have to say that I haven't heard anything in Holbrooke's output that could possibly compare with the sheer breadth and originality of  Havergal Brian's greatest works. The same goes for Bantock,who was a superb orchestrator & whose best music probably does deserve a place in the late romantic repertory but ultimately seems to lack Brian's timeless vision. Brian's muse,unlike that of Holbrooke or Bantock seems to look to the future,whereas Holbrooke, and the more consistently inspired muse of Bantock, seem to reside very firmly in the Edwardian fin de siecle (god I hope I spelled THAT right!)

Sergeant Rock

#1009
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 20, 2011, 02:32:40 AM
The original emi Lp had a wonderful photograph of Brian on the cover. A very striking cover image.

I still have the LP. Here's a scan I just made. Click to enlarge.




Sarge

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

J.Z. Herrenberg

@Sarge I still have my copy, too. Thanks for the beautiful scan!

@Cilgwyn Excellent post. Yes, Brian is the simply the greater creative force. The man had an exceptional mental energy. I love several of Bantock's pieces - the Handley CD with the Witch of Atlas, and the Hebridean and Celtic Symphonies is superb -, but they don't surpass Brian at his best. Holbrooke I still have to hear, though I wonder whether it will add much to my already extensive knowledge of late-Romantic composers.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

cilgwyn

To be fair,I think Brian and Bantock had different interests & agenda's,and Bantock was undoubtedly superb at what he did. But Brian at his best is a visionary. That's not to say that Bantock lacked vision,it just seems to have been less profound. I don't really like to compare two very different people,but in creative terms he strikes me as a sort of British version of Respighi,with his focus on pictorialism & antiquity. Although,Bantock seems to come across as the more profound of the two. I'm sure you could shared have allot of very interesting discussions with him,while Holbrooke's focus on himself & what he was doing would have soon driven you up the wall.
As to Holbrooke. I think he was very unlucky. He should have been born earlier & probably in Germany,where his flair for self promotion & barn storming ambitions might have met with a little more tolerance. And let's face it,compared to Wagner he was probably quite a nice person! On the other hand,who remembers August von Bungert,another composer with outrageous ambitions who,quite possibly,deserves re-evaluation? In many ways Holbrooke's biggest piece of bad luck (and ALLOT of other people's!) was the first world war & the change in tastes & attitudes that followed.
As to his personal spin on late romanticism. I think his eccentricity and flair for quirky & colourful orchestration and his preoccupation with bizarre subject matter like, for instance the work of Edgar Allan Poe,do give him a more interesting profile than some other forgotten late romantic composers of that colourful era. First rate,professional performances in state of the art digital sound quality of major works like 'Apollo and the Seaman' 'Queen Mab' & 'The Bells' should finally allow us to form a clearer picture of Holbrooke' true worth. I gather the late lamented Vernon Handley expressed interest. He certainly did wonders for Bantock!
Nevertheless, in my humble opinion,works like the 'Gothic Symphony','The Tiger's,'Wine of Summer',what little I've heard of 'Faust',the 'Sinfonia Tragica' & the 'tenth symphony',to name just a few, leave the former standing on so many different levels. As a matter of fact this reminds me a little of the comparisons that have been made between Bantock and Richard Strauss. Unfair yes,in certain ways. When you get to know Bantock's muse better he certainly has a distinct 'Bantockian' (for want of a better word) profile & I think you could even argue that,at best,his orchestration is more subtle or even more refined and tasteful. What he does lack,in my opinion,is Strauss's sheer breadth of range & ultimately his psychological penetration. Although,again,to be fair to Bantock ,I'm just comparing two very different people.

cilgwyn

By the way,the above scan has provided me with a very nice desktop. (The front cover of the old Lyrita of Symphonies 6 & 16 would be very nice too,hint! hint!)

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: cilgwyn on April 20, 2011, 05:16:10 AM
By the way,the above scan has provided me with a very nice desktop. (The front cover of the old Lyrita of Symphonies 6 & 16 would be very nice too,hint! hint!)

Unfortunately I don't have the Lyrita record. I have the American made LP on HNH Records. This probably isn't the cover your're looking for but I scanned it anyway in case anyone is interested in seeing it.




Sarge


the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Lethevich

Quote from: cilgwyn on April 20, 2011, 03:33:26 AM
On the other hand I have to agree with some of the dreaded David Hurwitz's comments about a lack of truly memorable thematic material & of allot of grand sounding rhetoric & gestures that ultimately seem to go nowhere.

Not quite as bad as William Wallace, though :)

Thanks for this post, you know far more about thow the musical scene of that time connected together than I.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Lethevich

Hmm, I am kind of glad that one went for so little (well, for nothing, even - no bids) - I priced an EMI vinyl (I think the one Sarge linked with the profile photo) at £5 in a charity store I work at without considering that even though (at the time) it was reissued in that EMI twofer, it may have had collectable value. It sold within a day or two making me a little worried I didn't price it high enough.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

cilgwyn

I'd forgotten those flowers!

cilgwyn

My comments about 'allot of grand sounding rhetoric & gestures that ultimately seem to go nowhere' could almost apply to David Hurwitz! Poor old Holbrooke.
Another extremely talented egotist I didn't mention has to be Cyril Scott.
I was wondering about that version of the Lyrita recording. I remember looking at some photos of long deleted Lp recordings on Amazon. Some of the most memorable being some very cheesy old opera sets of a very busty looking Anneliese Rothenberger. (I must have owned the 'cleaned up' versions). 'hnh records'? It looks a bit like a close up shot of a home made quilt. For some reason I rather liked the Lyrita design. The angular coloured mosaic seemed to fit in with the music in some wierd kind of way. The strange elliptical blocks of sound and the way they seemed to slowly and purposefully build up. I used to listen to the music with it propped up in front of me! I was actually disappointed when they didn't use it for the reissue!!!
  Worst 'design' for a Brian Lp could be the Aries cover photo for their state of someone else's art Lp of Brian's third symphony. Their design department was an absolute disgrace. I got my copy from 'Michael G Thomas'. Anyone remember their ads in Gramophone? And I know it's a total waste of time saying this,but I wish Myer Fredman,the LPO & Lyrita could have been able to record that most enigmatic of Brian symphonies.
As to Wiliam Wallace. 'Villons' not too bad & Hyperion should be congratulated for their usual good taste in cover paintings. (I mean the symphonic poems one).

cilgwyn

I must start an August von Bungert thread! (Incidentally HB mentions him in his journalism). With a name like that it's hard to understand why he isn't up there with the greats!