Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I went to Liverpool in 1987 to hear Macklerras conduct Symphony No. 7 live at Philharmonic Hall. An unforgettable experience. Malcolm MacDonald - whom I will be seeing again at the Gothic - gave a pre-concert talk.


The Seventh is a strange work. I wonder whether Brian thought it was his last, he was already in his seventies. But because another 25 symphonies followed it, and all shorter, our perspective is different. If it had been his last, you could have seen it as a great and mysterious farewell.


But then the Eighth happened... And the rest is history.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thirteen tickets left, at ever-rising prices, now between £69.30 and £93.50 (add around £30 in added costs):


http://www.getmein.com/tickets/prom-4-brian-the-gothic-symphony-tickets/london-202377.html

[Christo]

Yeah, I recall VW threatening to rescore the whole work for banjo at one point when Adler was being difficult!

Actually, he threatened with a bass tuba. (And he did: the result being the Tuba Concerto of 1954!)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I have 'met' a Welsh singer on Twitter, called Sioned Wyn. She is a member of "Côr Caerdydd. We're choir 2A. I'm sure it'll be a fantastic show. But it's exceedingly hard to sing!" In another tweet she writes: "poenus all over! Ma'r holl beth yn gargantuan!ma dau gor n splito i ddau gor plus cor plant a mahoosive cerddorfa!" Which our own Cilgwyn might perhaps be able to translate!

[DaveF]

Ah, twitter Welsh!  If Bishop William Morgan were alive he'd turn in his grave.  She's saying "painful all over!" (Perhaps how she feels after rehearsals?) "The whole thing is gargantuan!  There are two divided choruses and two choruses plus a children's chorus and an orchestra of not inconsiderable size!"

DF

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ah, twitter Welsh!  If Bishop William Morgan were alive he'd turn in his grave.  She's saying "painful all over!" (Perhaps how she feels after rehearsals?) "The whole thing is gargantuan!  There are two divided choruses and two choruses plus a children's chorus and an orchestra of not inconsiderable size!"

DF

Thanks! By the way - I only now realise you're also active on the Gramophone site, and I reacted to your message there yesterday...

[DaveF]

Yes, good to talk to you in both places, Johan.  I was never much of a one for forums until recently in a correspondence with Philip Legge I was bemoaning the fact that the HBS has no forum of its own, and he said...  So here I am.

DF

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You're right in bemoaning the absence of a forum at the HBS site. But I have it from the Chairman John Grimshaw himself that he appreciates the fact there is a flourishing thread here... I consider this thread threrefore an inofficial part of the HBS! 

[Luke]

I'm going to need to renew my long-lapsed membership, then...

I loved that translation of the (not specifically Welsh) vernacular 'mahoosive' into 'not inconsiderable size', btw!

BTW, I'm a bit fascinated - I am at work, and was earlier trying to post something on the Birtwistle thread. But no matter how I tried, I wasn't allowed to, because the work filters wouldn't let me. The page I was attempting to access, which, remember, wasn't the thread itself but merely the reply box, 'exceeded the weighted phrase limit' wrt Violence! Why would that be?

But it tells you something about Birtwistle, I guess! No such problems with Brian, of course.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The page I was attempting to access, which, remember, wasn't the thread itself but merely the reply box, 'exceeded the weighted phrase limit' wrt Violence! Why would that be?

But it tells you something about Birtwistle, I guess! No such problems with Brian, of course.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

From Newsletter 214 of the Havergal Brian Society, which I just received. Martyn Brabbins, the intrepid conductor of the upcoming performance of The Gothic, is quoted as saying:


"'My hope is that people are dumbstruck with a kind of awe and admiration that such a piece exists and a composer spent years of his life putting this thing on paper with no real hope or prospect of performance."

[Mirror Image]

From Newsletter 214 of the Havergal Brian Society, which I just received. Martyn Brabbins, the intrepid conductor of the upcoming performance of The Gothic, is quoted as saying:


"'My hope is that people are dumbstruck with a kind of awe and admiration that such a piece exists and a composer spent years of his life putting this thing on paper with no real hope or prospect of performance."

Let's hope Brabbins can pull this work off. If he does, I only pray that there will be a recording that follows.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Also from Newsletter 214: John Curro, veteran conductor of the Brisbane Gothic:


                                                                                   


"As for the piece itself, I think feelings about it vary from 'the world's greatest genius who's never been properly understood' to 'a whole lot of noisy rubbish'.  But I don't think he's either of those.  He is a damn good composer: very, very interesting – my goodness me – sometimes very exciting; sometimes very, very beautiful and serene.  There are spots where you think he has undoubtedly got the gift! I guess the aficionados are going to push the genius line, and it's just as well they do because otherwise I don't think he would ever be heard.  And the others had better reconsider."



I think he hits the nail right on the head. Overrating Brian is just as bad as undervaluing him. But in the clamour for attention that is the arts world, it helps to make the case for his importance as enthusiastically as possible, though always backed up by arguments (that will never convince everyone, of course).

[DavidW]

I've been reripping my cds into flac, and I discovered that I have the Gothic symphony!   I don't remember if I even listened to it, have I?  Well I'll give it a fresh listen this week.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I've been reripping my cds into flac, and I discovered that I have the Gothic symphony!   I don't remember if I even listened to it, have I?  Well I'll give it a fresh listen this week.

Perhaps the Brian fairy left it there...  Good luck with the ascent!

[cilgwyn]

Thought I would try Brian's 3rd symphony on my recently purchased Sennheiser cordless headphones (or should that be the other way around) and let me say,Brian's 3rd has never sounded as good (at least to my ears). The brass,piano's all the detail,the score so jam packed with ideas. It all sounds so rich & majestic and whoever described the score (somewhere here) as Brucknerian was not far wrong,although more in sweep and scale than sound. Sometimes I feel this symphony doesn't really work,but as always with Brian there's an underlying logic to everything he does & once you start listening you can't stop,you HAVE to follow it through. Which is one of the reason's I don't play the 'Gothic' as much as I would like to because it's so long and nothing would get done! One of Brian's strangest,wildest,wackiest scores. I particularly love the way the piano's weave in and out. Sometimes it's almost as if the symphony is being gatecrashed by some enormous hyper romantic Piano concerto. Some of the textures,sonorities and effects are quite astonishing. Imagine if this had the exposure it deserved in the time and geographical location in which it was written?  And,by the way Sennheiser + Brian rules!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

As far as I know the Third did start out as a piano concerto. But Brian the incorrigible symphonist took over... It is a very full work, I agree. The high point for me is the slow movement, which manages to combine a very sensuous pastoral meditativeness with monumentality. Unforgettable.

By the way - symphonies 22-24 plus First English Suite No. 1 are in the can. And the HBS is discussing new recordings, but details aren't forthcoming yet...

[cilgwyn]

Yes,I think you're right about the slow movement. Like the Seventh,I find something curiously nocturnal about the symphony. Maybe,just the fantastic imagery it produces. The profusion of ideas,textures and the way that 'would be' piano concerto weaves and glitters and at times thunders out through the sometimes almost luxuriant orchestration makes me think of Villa Lobos (his Choros No 10,for example,which is a sort of quasi piano concerto),not because it sounds like Lobos (it doesn't) but the sheer intricacy, brazen audacity and wildness of some of the scoring. Also because,if you play it late at night it can evoke strange vistas in the 'minds eye',not Brazilian ones of course. I'm thinking more like CS Lewis's 'Perelandra' or even  Edgar Rice Burrough's sci-fi novels,without the 'pulp'(iness) of course.
Of course this is all very subjective & I don't always think of things like that,and I doubt that Brian did. Although,the enigmatic inscription 'Altarus' sounds like it could come from a science fiction novel. David Lindsay's 'Voyage to Arcturus' could sound nearly as good as 'Voyage to Altarus'?
  Another Symphony that evokes alien vistas for me is Cyril Scott's Fourth Symphony. A sort of steely reinvention of impressionism that impressed me allot more than some of Scotts more lauded works. Another nocturnal symphony. Fortunately,Brian's imagery is far more varied and outgoing in temparament.
  Of course,the best way to listen to the symphony is as purely abstract work,which is the way Brian intended it,presumably.
   Regarding the Naxos.Thanks for the 'heads up' as they say. A new recording of the English Suite should lead to some more interesting debates about which is the best or most interesting recording. My gut feeling is that the Hull Youth Symphony version will still have some good points in it's favour. The Symphony No 22 has of course been recorded by the LSSO. No 24,as you already know will,be a first recording.
   I notice on the 'Gramophone forum' you list 27 & 28 (and 5) as the symphonies in most urgent need of recordings.
I think someone needs another go at No 2,as well.

[cilgwyn]

By the way,have you any theories about the identity of 'Altarus'?

[karlhenning]

. . . the incorrigible symphonist . . . .

Love it!