Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Answer by Jessica:


Johan, I know you came all the way from Holland specially for the performance and I'm very glad you enjoyed it. But I have to point something out: I don't have a verdict! I never said I did! I explained outright that I wasn't up for listening to the whole caboodle the other night and I quoted a number of other reviewers who did so. Sorry, but I am not the one getting muddled here. I think you are confusing a tongue-in-cheek blog post with an actual review.

My answer:


You do explicitly accord the 'Gothic' the status of Top White Elephant, without seriously listening to it. You had a preconception of the work, which was intensified by negative reviews, of which the one by David Nice doesn't merit the name - new to the piece, he thinks he can dismiss it out of hand after one listening -, and you then write the whole thing off, after the disappointment of the John Foulds World Requiem. I know it gets tiring to hear works touted as masterpieces. But I would have liked an informed rejection, based on serious listening. That's all.

[karlhenning]

. . . I know it gets tiring to hear works touted as masterpieces . . . .

Great ambiguity, there! Though in context it is clear you do not mean to tire of hearing the works, but of the touting.  Tangentially: A lesson which . . . some others might heed ; )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

!!!


Jessica:
Have you written your own review, Johan? If so, please send me a link. If not, would you like to write one as a guest post for JDCMB? (her blog)


I:


Very fair of you, Jessica. I think the best thing would be, if you linked to the wonderful review Brian Reinhart wrote. He heard the work for the first time, had an open mind and put down his impressions. Here is the link: http://bgreinhart.wordpres​s.com/2011/07/18/seeing-th​e-gothic/ You're a writer like me. People inhabit different worlds. Brian Reinhart gives us another take, which perhaps could explain to those not convinced what the Brian lovers are hearing...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Jessica:


Great - I will update my post with that link. Thanks, Johan. "Chacun a son gout"...


I:


Exactly! Thanks, Jessica.

[Brian]

 

When you first posted her comments, on the previous page of the thread, I was thinking "I should intervene in this..." turns out I already have! 

[cilgwyn]

Actually,reading David Nice's bog & the comments that have been left is rather cheering. That Brian garners such enthusiam and revulsion really only underlines the unending fascination of his music. Nice sounds to me like the sort of person who would be going on about how wonderful the Gothic was IF everyone else was. I love the way he tries to show how open minded he is about neglected  'fringe' composers by singling out Langgaard's* 'Music of the Spheres' for praise,safe in the knowledge that every Tom,Dick and Ligeti's done that already.
As for me,I'll be rolling my cassette deck at 2pm for the repeat (of Gothic).
By the way,aren't 5:4's 'retro' FLACS & Mp3's wonderful. Thanks!

* please note,I'm a Langgaard fan,myself.

[Brian]

By the way,aren't 5:4's 'retro' FLACS & Mp3's wonderful.

Yes, they are - and I've used a 90-second clip from 5:4's MP3 on my blog. Thank you, 5against4!

[Guido]

Listening again today... I just can't understand how any serious listener couldn't be riveted by this music. Such extraordinary beauty, and striding elemental grandeur - as Brian said, you just cant help but be happy that this music even exists.

Will be interesting to see what the sound guys do to the rebraodcast, and presumably they'll do more if there's a CD release.

[5against4]

Yes, they are - and I've used a 90-second clip from 5:4's MP3 on my blog. Thank you, 5against4!

You're all very welcome! i'm glad the recordings are proving to be useful. 

[cilgwyn]

The 'retro' was,of course, a tongue in cheek reference to my use of a cassette deck in 2011. Amazingly,the postman delivered a pack of 10 TDK D90 cassettes today,by recorded delivery. Mind you,I gather you can still buy Super 8 cine,so that's nothing!
The cassettes are for my own personal library as I don't think there'll be much of a queue for them!
5:4 is doing a wonderful service for genuine musical lovers everywhere. Beeb take note (But maybe not?).
Here's to the cd release............

[5against4]

The 'retro' was,of course, a tongue in cheek reference to my use of a cassette deck in 2011. Amazingly,the postman delivered a pack of 10 TDK D90 cassettes today,by recorded delivery. Mind you,I gather you can still buy Super 8 cine,so that's nothing!
The cassettes are for my own personal library as I don't think there'll be much of a queue for them!
5:4 is doing a wonderful service for genuine musical lovers everywhere. Beeb take note (But maybe not?).
Here's to the cd release............

i'm intending to record the repeat broadcast on my Edison Wax Cylinder recorder - assuming i've got any blank TDK cylinders that is... 

i began making off-air recordings in 1992, so obviously a large amount of my archive was originally on audio cassette. However, i've digitised them all now, & many of those recordings have appeared on 5:4 over the years. It's impressive to hear how those old recordings hold up against my modern recordings - granted, i was using a pretty fantastic machine (which i still have & use from time to time - cassettes are having something of a renaissance in some musical quarters) with top quality cassettes & Dolby S, but all the same, it proves just how transparent the fidelity of cassette recordings could be.

[cilgwyn]

Yes,cassettes are apparently still popular for audio books & in use in some cars,I gather. For some older people the fact that you just pop them in and press play or record is obviously an attraction,I suppose. I quite like some retro technology. I even have a super 8 & 16mm projector somewhere,but haven't used them for ages. Also,short wave radio,but there's too much interference now & most stations are on the web. I have two old wind up Gramophones. (That reminds me.they need a polish!)
I must say,I was amazed that they are still selling Sony Walkman cassette players!

NB: Don't forget to wind you're edison player up!

NB2: THE REPEAT OF THE GOTHIC IS ON RADIO 3 NOW!
        (just in case anyone doesn't know)

[5against4]

Yes,cassettes are apparently still popular for audio books & in use in some cars,I gather.

It's actually more the area of contemporary ambient & experimental electroacoustic music i was thinking of. There's been a real resurgence of interest in the cassette in the last 3 or 4 years, which seems to be going hand in hand with a renewed interest in vinyl - although, i'm never going back to that!

[cilgwyn]

Wow! Just looked at you're website. That's impressive.

[cilgwyn]

No,I liked Lp's when I was a teenager/in my early to mid 20's. In fact I loved my record player. But the last time I tried it was,Oh no,all those clicks and pops & the record sides seemed so short!
I DO miss those big record sleeves a bit though. I used to prop them up while I was listening to the music. Especially,some of the really 'groovy' ones on those rock albums.
I notice that some Led Zeppelin albums were released recently on cd with the cut out windows and that rotating wheel (Does it work?) And Jethro Tulls 'Stand up' Album wouldn't have been much cop without that huge 'pop up' figure! Not to mention King Crimson's 'At the Court of', and ELP's 'Brain Salad Surgery'. You needed some to buy it! I COULD go on,but I'm EXTREMELY off topic.

[karlhenning]

Funny you say that!  Was just visiting a friend who made me a CD of an old Melodiya LP of the Shostakovich Tenth . . . I was more curious than anything.  Haven't checked the CD itself yet, but certainly as it played, I heard all pop/click at the start of the first movement, and no pianissimo bassi ; )

[Dundonnell]

Malcolm MacDonald has gone off on holiday for a week so has not been able to join in any of the wider discussionin the press or online of Sunday's performance-even if he cared to do so!

I have been briefly in touch with him however and I very much hope that he would not mind me reporting here his one word comment on the performance-

"MARVELLOUS!"

No one-I would confidently contend-knows more about HB's music than Malcolm or has a greater claim to express a verdict on the performance.

No doubt we shall hear more in due course

[Philip Legge]

MARVELLOUS!

Thanks for that Colin!

[vandermolen]

At last - a sympathetic review in the British press - Geoff Brown in The Times today - not online yet as far as I can see.

[vandermolen]

At last - a sympathetic review in the British press - Geoff Brown in The Times today - not online yet as far as I can see.

...those nocturnal labours through the 1920s, writing under a green-shaded table-lamp, still gave us something vital and unique.  For this is a British work of such swirling fantasy, singular textures and heaving emotions that by the end you feel as if the top of your head has been blown apart.  Where did this work come from? What does it mean? It can only be understood, I think, as a tortured response to the Great War, as a vast edifice constructed in memory of civilisation's past and in outrage and fear of its future.  Brabbins backed by his batallions, made Brian's shock and awe triumphantly tangible.  I still wish the symphony was shorter, but this was definitely a night to remember