Havergal Brian.

J.Z. Herrenberg · October 29, 2011, 04:41:14 AM

Yes, early Messiaen is very good. Banquet céleste, Nativité du Seigneur and other pieces I really like very much...

Dundonnell · October 29, 2011, 04:45:07 AM

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on October 29, 2011, 04:34:35 AM
I don't have any problems with jump-cuts in music. My problem with Messiaen is more a matter of temperament. His time-scales are very diffucult to manage for me, as I am not religious. I also like my eroticism a bit cooler and reserved, like in Delius and, even, Scriabin. They know when to stop.

"Scriabin knows when to stop"........

?

I hadn't noticed

J.Z. Herrenberg · October 29, 2011, 04:48:44 AM

'The Poem of Ecstasy' is a model of restraint... ;-)

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 04:55:10 AM

Scriabin's eroticism 'cooler' and more 'reserved'? Bl**** Bill! Are you sure? Some of it sounds almost like the musical equivalent of jerking off to me. I can almost visualise Scriabin,working away at his score with the perspiration dripping off his hands and brow,getting himself more and more worked up.

Dundonnell · October 29, 2011, 04:57:52 AM

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on October 29, 2011, 04:48:44 AM
'The Poem of Ecstasy' is a model of restraint... ;-)

Well, I shall grant you that it is not as long as it seems...but the 'Divine Poem' lasts forty hours rather than forty minutes

I first heard the 'Poem of Ecstasy' on a Russian LP which weighed an absolute ton. The performance was by the Leningrad PO under Mravinsky, the recording was execrable but on the other side
is a performance of the Overture to Tannhauser which, despite the crackles and horrendous sound quality, is unbelievably electric

Still got the LP

Dundonnell · October 29, 2011, 04:59:28 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 29, 2011, 04:55:10 AM
Scriabin's eroticism 'cooler' and more 'reserved'? Bl**** Bill! Are you sure? Some of it sounds almost like the musical equivalent of jerking off to me. I can almost visualise Scriabin,working away at his score with the perspiration dripping off his hands and brow,getting himself more and more worked up.

Thank you for this colourful imagery

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:01:11 AM

And felled by a pimple (or a boil,or according to Wikipedia,a shaving cut?).
The Song of the High Hills IS quite erotic sounding,particularly those 'Aaah! Aaaah-ing!' bits!

The

is in the right place now!!!

J.Z. Herrenberg · October 29, 2011, 05:04:12 AM

Oh well, everyone has his own ears and experience. I hear a combination of erotic and mystical yearning. So it's not simply sexual. That goes for both Delius and Scriabin.

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:05:15 AM

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 29, 2011, 04:59:28 AM
Thank you for this colourful imagery

I did say it was the SCORE he was working away at!

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:18:08 AM

Seriously,I totally agree with you there,Johan. The title,'Poem of Ecstasy',for example,strikes me as a bit of a misnomer really,but I'd be amazed if sex didn't come into these two composers thoughts,at times! Talking about sex!!!!

Bax's Winter Legends always strikes me as a very sexually charged work,even if Bax said it was 'about' what he said it was! He did have a thing for the ladies after all!

But did Brian write any erotically charged music? Parts of 'The Wine of Summer',maybe?

Lethevich · October 29, 2011, 05:21:59 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 29, 2011, 05:01:11 AM
The is in the right place now!!!

That's what she said.

J.Z. Herrenberg · October 29, 2011, 05:35:18 AM

Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevna Pettersson on October 29, 2011, 05:21:59 AM
That's what she said.

:-)

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:36:31 AM

Making me laugh there,Lethe! (Am I a 'she'?

). This is a serious debate,ya know!!!!!
Yes,come to think of it,The Wine of Summer HAS to be Brian's most erotic work!
But like Delius or Scriabin,it's not quite as straight forward as that.

Dundonnell · October 29, 2011, 05:37:23 AM

How many posts in this thread relate to Havergal Brian?

J.Z. Herrenberg · October 29, 2011, 05:42:48 AM

Messiaen derailed it...

As for Brian and eroticism, there isn't too much of it. Though Symphony No. 2 also deals with the 'loves' of its hero, and Doctor Merryheart seems to know the phenomenon, too. The single most erotic thing in Brian is Green Pastures, from The Tigers, as far as I know, with soldiers forgetting about war and showing more interest in pretty maidens.

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:43:14 AM

One or two,Dundonnell?

Of course,Alfred Lord Douglas would have been thinking about blokes,which complicates things even further,but makes any perceived subtext to Brian's Fifth even more intriguing,as Brian was strongly heterosexual (or so I have always been led to believe!).

cilgwyn · October 29, 2011, 05:51:25 AM

The Wine of Summer always sounds very hot house and steamy to my ears! Very,'fin de siecle',temperature wise. I always feel the urge to jump into a cold shower after just one listen. Which could be a problem as I only have a bath!
Green pastures is certainly quite 'sexy',in it's own way,but (to my ears) emotionally more restrained. But I will have another listen later,to make sure (cold bath at the ready!).

John Whitmore · October 29, 2011, 05:52:21 AM

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 29, 2011, 05:37:23 AM
How many posts in this thread relate to Havergal Brian?

I see Arsenal had a good win at Chelsea. Who's Brian?

Dundonnell · October 29, 2011, 05:57:30 AM

Who are Arsenal? What are they doing in Chelsea?

John Whitmore · October 29, 2011, 06:21:57 AM

And now for something quite unusual. A post about Havergal Brian. I've been messing with the Holmes VC MP3 and found 5 ruinous moments at 7'14'', 16'40'', 16' 55'', 26'36'' and 35'45'' where the tape seemed to kick in a limiter and the sound immediately fell away and almost disappeared. I've sorted these out - not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but an improvement all the same. I also fixed the decay at the very end which was a bit chopped off. Other than that there's a slight brightening and a bit more at the bottom end. Hope you like it. Will listen to the others at a later time. I enjoy this piece. It has its Delian moments and a theme very similar to Elgar's Windflower. As to Rolf/Ralph. Brilliant. Here's the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7ovbho91wr9bgb6