Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Well, at least he admits we Bruckner lovers are "thinking" men. 

[John Whitmore]

Put-down of the Day. 

Maybe but we've got hours left. It's still early afternoon. Could still be beaten. Let's talk about Khachaturian and Hovhaness......

[Christo]

Bruckner, the thinking man's James Last.

No comment.

[Superhorn]

   Maybe we should call this thread "The Life Of Brian " !

[Sergeant Rock]

   Maybe we should call this thread "The Life Of Brian " !

Excellent suggestion 

Sarge

[John Whitmore]

   Maybe we should call this thread "The Life Of Brian " !

Ken Russell was going to make a film about HB with this very same title. Shame that it won't happen now......

[cilgwyn]

By dinasman at 2011-12-04

This is a scan of THE Delius cd (my own!) that has 'enjoyed' the most return visits to my cd player. I like the selection. Some of these pieces are not you're typical Delius ie,they have noisy bits & quite allot seems to happen (for Delius!). North Country Sketches is often cited as music for people who think they don't like Delius (except Dundonnell*,of course,who doesn't like him,anyway! ) Eventyr is the one with the famous 'shouts',a piece,which in my humble opinion,makes Grieg sound a bit tame,by comparison! Life's Dance is one of my favourites & rather underrated in my opinion. It goes very well with the Dance Rhapsody No 1 & it's companions,in my opinion. A very well chosen selection! Of course,why I'm posting this in a Brian thread is probably open to debate,but HB liked Delius** & so does Johan,so there!

Incidentally,that could be a bit of egg on the top right hand side of the jewel case?

False alarm. It's just a reflection in the monitor!

[John Whitmore]

By dinasman at 2011-12-04

This is a scan of THE Delius cd (my own!) that has 'enjoyed' the most return visits to my cd player. I like the selection. Some of these pieces are not you're typical Delius ie,they have noisy bits & quite allot seems to happen (for Delius!). North Country Sketches is often cited as music for people who think they don't like Delius (except Dundonnell*,of course,who doesn't like him,anyway! ) Eventyr is the one with the famous 'shouts',a piece,which in my humble opinion,makes Grieg sound a bit tame,by comparison! Life's Dance is one of my favourites & rather underrated in my opinion. It goes very well with the Dance Rhapsody No 1 & it's companions,in my opinion. A very well chosen selection! Of course,why I'm posting this in a Brian thread is probably open to debate,but HB liked Delius** & so does Johan,so there!

Incidentally,that could be a bit of egg on the top right hand side of the jewel case?

False alarm. It's just a reflection in the monitor!

And so do I. This is a good CD but not quite in the Beecham/Barbirolli class in my humble opinion. PS Have you had a new scanner for an early Christmas present?

[Mirror Image]

And so do I. This is a good CD but not quite in the Beecham/Barbirolli class in my humble opinion. PS Have you had a new scanner for an early Christmas present?

Mackerras easily outclasses Beecham, Barbirolli, and Groves IMHO.

[cilgwyn]

That was egg was it?

[cilgwyn]

Groves easily outclasses Beecham,Barbirolli & Mackerras IMHO! I'm joking of course!!!!  Thank you for your humble opinions (what is this,Charlie Chan?). I would be the last person to say that anything on this cd is as good as Beecham,Mackerras or Barbirolli. I just like the selection on this cd & I personally enjoy the interpretations,even if they're not up there with the podium gods. I think Groves was a pretty good conductor & a bit underrated,although as underrated conductors go I wouldn't put him in the Bryden Thomson (a favourite of mine) or Gibson class,but I think he did a lot for British music Anyway,in Groves's defence,Beechams approach to Eventyr is way too refined,not to mention those posh 'shouts'! 'Lifes Dance',a rare piece, is atypical of Delius,anyway, & I think the temperament & vigour of the piece benefits from Groves muscular approach.
Still,at least you didn't bring in any references to Sumo wrestlers or James Last,this time,John!

NB: No,it's ancient old Canon scanner & probably a little overused at the moment!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

A final track of applause lasting nearly nine minutes isn't excessive after a symphonic expanse of an hour and three quarters. As ideas tumble forth in Havergal Brian's epic scheme, you cannot help admiring his fervour in getting it all down on paper. It remains one of the oddities of the English symphonic repertoire, but Martyn Brabbins and his legions of players and singers do it proud.

Geoffrey Norris in The Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalcdreviews/8928715/Havergal-Brian-Symphony-No-1-Gothic-Soloists-Choirs-CD-review.html

[kishnevi]

Obviously Mahler borrowed a few themes from Rott. What he did with those themes, though, is strikingly different. When I listen to the Rott Symphony, I don't hear Mahler so much as I hear Brahms, Bruckner, Smetana, Wagner and, interestingly, a pre-echo of Franz Schmidt. Mahler borrowed liberally from other composers, too, and from popular music, but in the end it always sounds like Mahler: quite original. That originality is one reason the public and critics had a hard time accepting his music during his lifetime.


Sarge

Yes, to the Brahms.  When I listened to Rott's symphony I felt like I was listening to second rate Brahms--stuff the real Brahms might have stuck in a side drawer in the hopes of coming back to it later and trying to do it better.  Mahler may have borrowed some things from Rott, but he did things with them that Rott didn't even come close to doing.  Perhaps if Rott had lived a full lifespan he might have developed--it certainly would have been an interesting influence on Mahler--but as it stands I find Rott's Symphony one of the less interesting pieces of late 19th century music.

I'm not so down on Bruckner as John is--I can listen to him a symphony at a time without harming my sanity--but I do feel sometimes as if he wrote the same symphony in nine different ways, rather than nine symphonies totally different from each other.

[Dundonnell]

Bruckner's music takes me as near to Heaven as I am ever likely to get

It is as simple as that

When I wrote that Mahler was "grossly over-rated" I overstated the case, of course. He WAS a great composer of real genius and his symphonies and vocal music are both inspired and inspiring. What I object to, what really, really annoys me is that it seems as though every conductor on the planet believes that it is impossible to establish his credentials as a conductor of substance without conducting and indeed recording at least one Mahler symphony. So we have a never-ending flood of new Mahler recordings pouring forth every month. This, to my mind, is utterly pointless excess, when there are so many other good(not necessarily great, but certainly eminently worthy) composers whose music is ignored or seldom heard.

I heard very recently about two quite eminent British conductors-now both sadly deceased-who were well-known for their enterprise in promoting and conducting British music but in the so-called "standard repertoire" were regarded with considerable disdain by orchestral musicians. They knew without any shadow of doubt that these conductors were largely going through the motions with such pieces, had nothing to add to the interpretation and indeed got through the rehearsals so quickly that they could then let the orchestra off early to get to the pub-which certainly aided their popularity but not the professional esteem in which they should have been held.

[kishnevi]

Bruckner's music takes me as near to Heaven as I am ever likely to get

It is as simple as that

When I wrote that Mahler was "grossly over-rated" I overstated the case, of course. He WAS a great composer of real genius and his symphonies and vocal music are both inspired and inspiring. What I object to, what really, really annoys me is that it seems as though every conductor on the planet believes that it is impossible to establish his credentials as a conductor of substance without conducting and indeed recording at least one Mahler symphony. So we have a never-ending flood of new Mahler recordings pouring forth every month. This, to my mind, is utterly pointless excess, when there are so many other good(not necessarily great, but certainly eminently worthy) composers whose music is ignored or seldom heard.

I can't see that Bruckner has anything near that effect on me.  I suppose it's just that I don't have an emotional connection with his music.

I can understand the wariness about too many Mahler recordings.  I've actually reached saturation with him now--that is, I've got  several cycles and numerous one-offs or less than cycles, enough that I am less tempted to go see what someone else has done with the music.

However, it strikes me that these conductors who don't have the imagination to not record Mahler might not have enough to get people interested in those relatively unknown composers  if they did record them.  And while a less than inspired recording of Mahler (or Bruckner or Beethoven or any of the heavyweights) would not be a death knell for Mahler, etc. a less than inspired recording of one of these unknowns could be enough to kill any interest in him among the musical public.  So if they have to damage someone, let them damage Mahler.  He can take it.

I have, btw, found the perfect present for you and I, if anyone wants to give us something this Christmas.
[asin]B005RXKKQO[/asin]

[Hattoff]

The new Hyperion Gothic is the top seller at MDT:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/pages/home/default.asp

Good news

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, it is!

[John Whitmore]

Bruckner's music takes me as near to Heaven as I am ever likely to get

It is as simple as that

If that's the case I'm really pleased that I have no religion and don't believe in heaven. If I did believe in heaven then it wouldn't be music that took me there. There are other things that might, though. I'd better not go on any further...........

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

There is no shame in loving the Teletubbies.

[hbswebmaster]

Excellent news! It's a pity that Geoffrey Norris couldn't have written a few more words in his review.

I agree with Dundonnell about Bruckner; he was one of that handful in the nineteenth century that really developed the symphonic process. It's often stated that Mahler was influenced by Schoenbergian principles towards the end of his life (specfically symphonies 9 and 10), but Bruckner had got there ten years beforehand - just listen to the Schoenbergian-type clusters in Bruckner's ninth. I could write a book. (Oh; I have done!    )

For those who are hyper-saturated with Mahler recordings, have a look at these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uJnc5lYx6E and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjh2pucllRQ&feature=related) - videos of the New England Conservatory Philharmonia under Hugh Wolff in September this year, playing what may well be the very first version of his first symphony, based on a manuscript used at the Hungarian premiere in 1889, now kept in Canada. The final movement is significantly different, the recapitulation initiating with a repeat of the movement's opening rather than the viola growls that we are used to.