Havergal Brian.

[Dundonnell]

Yes......but that is because you know the work from the score, Johan. You can therefore identify where Stokowski goes wrong and conceive what the work should sound like.

For someone coming new to the work the Stokowski "interpretation" is all that they will have.....and what they will get is a serious misrepresentation which, at times, renders Brian's frequently difficult textures almost completely unintelligible and is a distortion of what Brian meant.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I know the work from Malcolm...  But you have a point, Colin - I can live with the interpretation because I silently correct what goes awry. A newcomer cannot do that.

[John Whitmore]

I have just ordered the Klassic Haus restoration of Symphonies Nos. 8 and 14

I would have ordered the Violin Concerto as well but I see that it is coupled with the Stokowski version of Symphony No.28 I fully accept that the Stokowski is the only performance currently available but it was such a manifest disaster that I cannot see how perpetuating its existence is doing the symphony any favours
I certainly could not listen to it without a feeling of anger, annoyance and frustration

It's a cheap as chips. Solution - buy it and don't play the 28th PS I don't have a problem with Stokowski to be honest. Even the over use of percussion (could be the recording, not the conductor) is all good fun. If you can tolerate the LSSO you should be OK with Stokey - far superior.

[John Whitmore]

Yes......but that is because you know the work from the score, Johan. You can therefore identify where Stokowski goes wrong and conceive what the work should sound like.

For someone coming new to the work the Stokowski "interpretation" is all that they will have.....and what they will get is a serious misrepresentation which, at times, renders Brian's frequently difficult textures almost completely unintelligible and is a distortion of what Brian meant.

By the way Colin I saw your Bryan Kelly posts - now he was a great bloke to meet and work with!! Fine conductor. Had good parties as well. I uploaded a rehearsal of his New Orleans Suite onto Arts Forum. Not very polished but listenable.

[calyptorhynchus]

I've just ordered my copy of the new Dutton (Vlon Conc, S 13 &c) directly from their website.

O I wonder once we five or six  have ordered our copies how many more they will sell.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ha!


I am going to pre-order through the HBS...

[hemmesjo]

Amazon US is probably the place to go.

They're listed at amazon US as unavailable.  I couldn't find them listed at amazon.uk, presto or mdt.  Isn't anyone in the UK selling them other than Dutton?

Thanks.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Brian hasn't been released yet. That may be the reason why it isn't listed at other sites than Dutton (I don't know what else you want to have...)

[cilgwyn]

I'm sure it will appear elsewhere before long! Presto are usually fairly quick on the uptake. In fact,their site is often the first place I'll see a pre-release cd listed! And then there is HMV,who tend to be a bit slower to list,but always used to have new Dutton cds at a special offer price & post free! They even had Boughton's 'The Queen of Cornwall' once,a 2cd set,for £11.99! I like Boughton & like a fool I resisted! Not sure if they do it now,though?!! Their search facility is not for the faint hearted,mind!! However,when it's something really special like this I usually buy directly from Dutton (also,their Holbrooke & Bate releases).....but then I'm in Wales,of course!

[Dundonnell]

I have ordered direct from Dutton   The Arnell, Alan Bush and Arnold Bax etc cds as well

At £9.99 each cheaper than Presto

[cilgwyn]

And,hopefully,with the additional benefit of encouraging them to record more!!! (I was of course,partly, responding to hemmesjo,who is buying from the US!)
I have also bought the odd cd directly from Chandos,if it's something VERY special,or of outstanding interest to me! But,having said that,I usually buy Chandos cds from Amazon sellers! Chandos of course give you points towards a free cd,don't they....so,if they hurry up & bring out something astounding,I might finally get my 'freebie'! Holbrooke's 'Apollo & the Seaman',The Bells,Queen Mab or some Daniel Jones,might just tempt me! Sadly,of late,their output seems to have become more predictable. I don't even look at their ads much now. It's either Cpo,Dutton or Naxos! Of course,they have had allot of bad luck with their star conductors,so,it's,obviously, not all their fault.

Maybe their upcoming release/recording of Raff 2,might do it for me?!!

[Dundonnell]

Agree about Chandos....and Bis seem to be going the same way Who wants to buy another Tchaikovsky 5th or whatever released by Bis when there are enough classic recordings already available   Oh well....obviously some people do

There should be a blanket ban on all new recordings of Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky and Mahler for the next two years

[John Whitmore]

Agree about Chandos....and Bis seem to be going the same way Who wants to buy another Tchaikovsky 5th or whatever released by Bis when there are enough classic recordings already available   Oh well....obviously some people do

There should be a blanket ban on all new recordings of Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky and Mahler for the next two years

I just received a double CD of Dvorak 9/Cello concerto for review. It's amazing. Probably the worst recording I've heard. It's so closely mic'd that every little movement of each player is captured and there's a loud sniff every 10 seconds. Lots of knob twiddling and every section sounds mixed, artificial and overdubbed. Phase Four but worse. What gets me is that Mercury were producing fabulous recordings (ditto Everest) in the late 1950s with a 3 mic set up and over 50 years later things are worse. I wonder if some of the engineers are Pop music trained. For an EMI product this is a disgrace and I don't know how Pappano has allowed it to be released.  Orchestras don't sound like this!! I don't know what the playing is like because it's unlistenable. Actually that's my MusicWeb review written

[cilgwyn]

I bought some of those old Everest & Mercury recordings recently. They are marvellous. Crystal clear & you can hear every note!
Regarding Dvorak! A loveable,endearing composer if ever there was,& definately not HIS fault (or Mahler's!),but only a few months ago I read another review of a new recording of Dvorak's ninth symphony,which came to the conclusion that this was probably the best recording of the symphony ever! If I had a pound (as they say!) for every review of a new recording of a warhorse that is the best one ever,I would be a very rich man,by now!

Sometimes the reviewers don't help!

The Symphonie Fantastique is another one. I LOVE it,but if I bought every one of the recordings that tumble out per month I would need to build an extension to put them in! How the reviewers enthuse over a new recording that offers some astounding new insight! And every other month it seems,another 'gimmick'. I think one recording used pianos. Do I REALLY need it?!! Of course,one plus point about this symphony is that all the bizarre orchestral effects Berlioz uses mean that buying a different recording CAN be fun! Ansermet's creepy bells for example & I rather like Martinon's underrated (emi) very french sounding orchestra. In fact,I think I've got all the famous ones,right back to the first ever recordings & some period orchestrations! But it's got to the point where,interested as I am in Berlioz's wacky creation,I 'm starting to think DO I really need this new recording? Does it really offer any astonishing new insight that Munch,Beecham,Paray,Davis,Fried,Beecham,Bernstein,Gardiner,Monteux,Martinon,Markevitch,etc,don't?!! Quite frankly,if I was really paranoid,I might even start thinking the record labels were taking us all for a bunch of suckers!

Enough IS enough!!!

NB: Sensible people like John probably save allot of dosh & stick to Beecham!

[Sergeant Rock]

The Symphonie Fantastique is another one.  I LOVE it

I understand you're a homebody who rarely ventures beyond the Composers board     But I think you might be interested in the upcoming Blind Comparison featuring the Symphonie fantastique in the Great Recordings and Reviews board. I'm sure Daniel would love to have you take part. Johan's already committed to it. Check this thread if you want to sign on.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21089.msg670767.html#msg670767

Sarge

[cilgwyn]

This is what comes of ranting!! To be honest,without the big letters on the front I probably wouldn't have a clue which was which! Actually,I don't normally invest in multiple recordings. Like Dundonnell,it's expensive & life is too short! But the wierd orchestral effects mean that even a layman like me can enjoy some of the more obvious differences.....especially in those 'BONG! BONG! BONG! bits.........
Not too mad on quiz type things,either so I may respectfully decline!
A blonde quiz show hostess may have helped once,but I'm too old now!!

[Sergeant Rock]

n those 'BONG! BONG! BONG! bits.........
Not too mad on quiz type things,either so I may respectfully decline!

Well, it isn't a quiz. No guessing required. You simply listen to clips from recordings and let us know which you prefer, from favorite to least favorite. There isn't even a requirement to explain your choices (although most participants write something). There are usually three rounds, each round eliminating a number of recordings which are then revealed. It's fun....and it sometimes challenges long-held beliefs (many a famous recording withers when heard blind    )

Sarge

[Dundonnell]

From my experience both inside and outside of music forums I have come to the conclusion that the classical listening world divides into those who prefer to stick mainly to composers they know-Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Berlioz, Brahms, Wagner, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius et al- are perfectly happy to amass collections of multiple copies of these composers' music(including some obvious duds) and compare and contrast interpretations, tempi etc etc etc at great and, undoubtedly, well-informed depth for hours, days........

and those who prefer to have one, two or, at the very most, three versions of the same piece, bought, probably, on the recommendation of a writer/critic they have come to trust and respect, and spend the rest of their time exploring the byways of musical composition, investigating composers who have been neglected or ignored previously.

Each is a perfectly respectable position to adopt I bow in admiration to those who have the musical knowledge to review and discuss twenty versions of the same Mahler symphony. I don't have such knowledge. I prefer to go exploring. Sometimes the music I unearth turns out to be no more than average but sometimes I discover a composer who takes my breath away and that is a simply marvellous experience

Take cilgwyn's beloved Daniel Jones for example Or Richard Arnell How many of those who love the rich romanticism of, say, Rachmaninov would love the Arnell symphonies
Yet they may not give the man a chance because they are comparing the umpteenth version of the Mahler 7th

There....another rant

[Scarpia]

From my experience both inside and outside of music forums I have come to the conclusion that the classical listening world divides into those who prefer to stick mainly to composers they know-Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Berlioz, Brahms, Wagner, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius et al- are perfectly happy to amass collections of multiple copies of these composers' music(including some obvious duds) and compare and contrast interpretations, tempi etc etc etc at great and, undoubtedly, well-informed depth for hours, days........

and those who prefer to have one, two or, at the very most, three versions of the same piece, bought, probably, on the recommendation of a writer/critic they have come to trust and respect, and spend the rest of their time exploring the byways of musical composition, investigating composers who have been neglected or ignored previously.

Each is a perfectly respectable position to adopt I bow in admiration to those who have the musical knowledge to review and discuss twenty versions of the same Mahler symphony. I don't have such knowledge. I prefer to go exploring. Sometimes the music I unearth turns out to be no more than average but sometimes I discover a composer who takes my breath away and that is a simply marvellous experience

Take cilgwyn's beloved Daniel Jones for example Or Richard Arnell How many of those who love the rich romanticism of, say, Rachmaninov would love the Arnell symphonies
Yet they may not give the man a chance because they are comparing the umpteenth version of the Mahler 7th

There....another rant

The human race can be divided into two categories.  Those who divide the human race into two categories, and those who don't. 

I don't see how the fact that I have more than a dozen recordings of Bruckner's 8th or Beethoven's late String Quartets disqualifies me from being interested in musical composition.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

"I don't see how the fact that I have more than a dozen recordings of Bruckner's 8th or Beethoven's late String Quartets disqualifies me from being interested in musical composition."


I don't think Colin is saying that. What I think he is bewailing is the fact - as he sees it - that people aren't adventurous enough, missing a lot of good, yes, sometimes even great music in the process.