21st Century aesthetics

[schweitzeralan]

There have been several posts on topics dealing with the future of music in the decades to come.  I suggested some time ago a threaded concept of classical music as a "fading aesthetic" among the general public, although I didn't use that exact term. professional musicians and listening enthusiasts not unlike myself are pretty well informed concerning the basics of music (as well as in the other arts, graphic or literary) history; viz, Medieval. Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionism (Symbolism), et. al.

Styles, melodic and harmonic configurative "language" has obviously changed over the decades and centuries. I won't beat the dead horse here. Suffice to say, the last 20th century the march of sundry '"isms" now appear to be exhausted. Obviously no composer can use the aesthetic styles conceived by Bach, Schubert, Debussy, Frank, Martinu, Prokofiev,or any composer who has contributed his unique style to create a movement or classification. These wonderful "styles" are forever gone but are fortunately performed and/or made available by virtue of recordings. We're aware of and blessed by this.

I'm curious as to what posters think about the pending and distant possibilities associated with musical styles.  Serialism, minimilism are exhausted. The percussive trends are still relatively current, along with elements of pop music in various contemporary styles, according to some critics.  Is it, however, possible that similarities to the music conceived, let's say, during early 20th century music, could somehow be revived?  Or, Could there be, for example,  a "renewed" Sibelius?  I of course have my doubts. I'm just curious to learn what forum contributors opine on this subject if its worth the trouble. Will music be somehow totally different from the wonderful creations evolved over the centuries in Western culture? Just a thought.

[Superhorn]

  It's simply too early into the 21th century to know how classical music will develop in the future. There's no way to know. There may very well be some children now who will eventually become the most important and influential composers of this century , or young people who are just beginning to copose already .
  But we mustn't assume that all the possibilities are exhausted. Keep this story in mind . Near the end of his life , Brahms met Mahler at a lakeside resort in Austria where they were were both staying, and the two had a conversation.
  Near the end of his life, Brahms was gloomy about the future of music, and declared that there was nowhere for music to go in the future.
  Then Mahler pointed to the nearby lake and declared "Look-there goes the last wave !"

[Franco]

the last 20th century the march of sundry '"isms" now appear to be exhausted. obviously no composer can use the aesthetic styles conceived by Bach, Schubert, Debussy, Frank, Martinu, Prokofiev,or any composer who has contributed his unique style to create a movement or classification. These wonderful "styles" are forever gone

False premise.

Nothing is off limits for a composer to use; nothing is gone.

[DavidW]

False premise.

Nothing is off limits for a composer to use; nothing is gone.

QFT  I don't think any type of music can be said to be exhausted, what are classical music listeners easily bored?  Are musical forms the equivalent of scare tactics in a horror movie?

[CRCulver]

False premise.

Nothing is off limits for a composer to use; nothing is gone.

There may be nothing off limits, but clearly if the composer wants to get any actual attention, preexisting styles will have to be used more in a Schnittke-like polystylism than directly applied to an entire work.

Have you even read Roger Scruton's writings on music? He abhors "atonality", under which heading he ends up encompassing nearly every composer of the last 50 years talked about here. In their stead, he often recommends some contemporary composers that write fairly straightforward tonal works. Yet, those composers who write straightforward tonality don't really have any following--everyday concertgoers don't like them just because they are recent instead of standard repertoire, and fans of modernism don't like them because they don't seem to offer much new outside the old models.

[Franco]

There may be nothing off limits, but clearly if the composer wants to get any actual attention, preexisting styles will have to be used more in a Schnittke-like polystylism than directly applied to an entire work.

There are ways to draw inspiration from older works besides imitating them or using them in the manner you describe.   I am also extremely wary of anyone writing about atonal music in general terms since that music is so widely varied I think it is impossible to make an intelligent point if you attempt to refer to it all.

[Guido]

There may be nothing off limits, but clearly if the composer wants to get any actual attention, preexisting styles will have to be used more in a Schnittke-like polystylism than directly applied to an entire work.

Have you even read Roger Scruton's writings on music? He abhors "atonality", under which heading he ends up encompassing nearly every composer of the last 50 years talked about here. In their stead, he often recommends some contemporary composers that write fairly straightforward tonal works. Yet, those composers who write straightforward tonality don't really have any following--everyday concertgoers don't like them just because they are recent instead of standard repertoire, and fans of modernism don't like them because they don't seem to offer much new outside the old models.

Adams? Part? Tavener? Macmillan? Reich? Corigliano? Whitacre? All these are popular with both audiences and "fans of modernism"...

[schweitzeralan]

False premise.

Nothing is off limits for a composer to use; nothing is gone.

I wish it were false.  Yet hope springs eternal.

[snyprrr]

1) Music will start sounding more and more Middle eastern/Asian.

2) The Music Industry's main function will be political.

3) Who was that Russian guy... Zhandov???... the Shosty hater??? yea, that's coming...

4) Hannah Montana will be credited with writing Beethoven's 9th.

5) SuperBach will be born on Dec. 21, 2012. He will be a scientifically cloned offspring of Bach, but, hehheh, with minor genetic modifications, hahahaha,..oh, excuse me,... and he will be entrusted with bringing in people's brain wave alignments with that of the "Man".

6) If that doesn't work, every cd will contain a mind controlling chip, so, forget about music.

7) May I repeat,...FORGET ABOUT MUSIC... there are going to be things of greater emport than what concert are you going to or who are you listening to... unless of course you're a UtopianMarxist who thinks that man is well on his way to solving all the world's ills by government mandate. Quit stealing my money%@#X*F&#!?SH*%$@#...

There, I feel better now.

9) Remember that last phrase, "I feel so much better now," because that's the phrase they're going to want you to say when they inject the bio-chip that pipes Yanni music to your brainstem all day long!

10) FORGET about Sibelius!!! He had the great sense not to write music for decades. Mwah !!!

11) Philip Glass + Carl Stalling = 21st century music

12) May James Horner write your elegy.

[karlhenning]

QFT  I don't think any type of music can be said to be exhausted, what are classical music listeners easily bored?  Are musical forms the equivalent of scare tactics in a horror movie?

You've heard one arpeggiated C Major triad, you've heard 'em all . . . .

[karlhenning]

There may be nothing off limits, but clearly if the composer wants to get any actual attention, preexisting styles will have to be used more in a Schnittke-like polystylism than directly applied to an entire work.

No, I deny that there is only One Path to any musical method.

[schweitzeralan]

1) Music will start sounding more and more Middle eastern/Asian.

2) The Music Industry's main function will be political.

3) Who was that Russian guy... Zhandov???... the Shosty hater??? yea, that's coming...

4) Hannah Montana will be credited with writing Beethoven's 9th.

5) SuperBach will be born on Dec. 21, 2012. He will be a scientifically cloned offspring of Bach, but, hehheh, with minor genetic modifications, hahahaha,..oh, excuse me,... and he will be entrusted with bringing in people's brain wave alignments with that of the "Man".

6) If that doesn't work, every cd will contain a mind controlling chip, so, forget about music.

7) May I repeat,...FORGET ABOUT MUSIC... there are going to be things of greater emport than what concert are you going to or who are you listening to... unless of course you're a UtopianMarxist who thinks that man is well on his way to solving all the world's ills by government mandate. Quit stealing my money%@#X*F&#!?SH*%$@#...

There, I feel better now.

9) Remember that last phrase, "I feel so much better now," because that's the phrase they're going to want you to say when they inject the bio-chip that pipes Yanni music to your brainstem all day long!

10) FORGET about Sibelius!!! He had the great sense not to write music for decades. Mwah !!!

11) Philip Glass + Carl Stalling = 21st century music

12) May James Horner write your elegy.

Why Philip Glass?

[CRCulver]

Adams? Part? Tavener? Macmillan? Reich? Corigliano? Whitacre? All these are popular with both audiences and "fans of modernism"...

Scruton dislikes the minimalists and, though I've never seen him comment on the composers, I suspect Adams and Corigliano are far too chromatic for his tastes.

[Josquin des Prez]

Sibelius quit when he realized composers weren't interested in writing music anymore. Can't say i blame him.

[Josquin des Prez]

No, I deny that there is only One Path to any musical method.

But there is, it's called "genius".

[Josquin des Prez]

everyday concertgoers don't like them just because they are recent instead of standard repertoire

Or maybe they don't like them because the music isn't really good. Just because its tonal doesn't mean it just like what the old masters used to write.

[Franco]

Sibelius quit when he realized composers weren't interested in writing music anymore. Can't say i blame him.

No, he quit when he wasn't interested in writing music anymore.  I guess.  But I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with some idea about what other composers were up to.

[karlhenning]

But there is, its called "genius".

Something of which you have no knowledge . . . not unrelated to the fact that the image you just used is a file named smiley_smug.gif

("JdP," your mother ought to have told you:  sort out the difference between its and it's before you try pontificating in public about genius.)

[some guy]

Adams? Part? Tavener? Macmillan? Reich? Corigliano? Whitacre? All these are popular with both audiences and "fans of modernism"...

Not sure that's true, Guido. (Or maybe it's just that we mean different things by "fans of modernism." Certainly the composers and performers and listeners I hang out with do not find any of the people you mentioned particularly compelling or important. (Though one of them just as certainly started out being important, and well liked.)

As for you, mr. so-called snyprrr,* thank you very much for writing such a humorous and entertaining post right before I want to say something serious!!

*if that IS your real name...

[Josquin des Prez]

Something of which you have no knowledge

I'm probably the only person who has a vague idea of what it actually is in this entire forum. This doesn't necessarily go to my credit of course, as all good men should have a modicum of understanding of the nature of genius, even if they don't directly understand the produces of genius, but it does speak negatively for everybody else.

. . . not unrelated to the fact that the image you just used is a file named smiley_smug.gif

Yes.