What is the cause of the high divorce rate?

[abidoful]

Maybe that attitude is why your previous relationship didn't work out so well?

Hah---that was kind of nasty
But I can take a joke.
What I mean is that  being "sexually compatible" is shit. Sex is just an incredibly intimate dimension of the love affair between man and woman and you can't separate it to something mechanical "sexual compatibality".

[MishaK]

Hah---that was kind of nasty
But I can take a joke.
What I mean is that  being "sexually compatible" is shit. Sex is just an incredibly intimate dimension of the love affair between man and woman and you can't separate it to something mechanical "sexual compatibality".

You misunderstood both of us by thinking that we meant "something mechanical". Yes, sex is incredibly intimate. It is deeply emotional and there has to be the right chemistry and attraction and fulfillment. Just because you have the right types of genitalia doesn't mean that these needs will be met. Also, the use of aforementioned parts needs to be practiced. You both need to be of the requisite maturity and have the necessary patience for each other in the beginning if you're new to this. Otherwise only frustration will ensue.

[abidoful]

You misunderstood both of us by thinking that we meant "something mechanical". Yes, sex is incredibly intimate. It is deeply emotional and there has to be the right chemistry and attraction and fulfillment. Just because you have the right types of genitalia doesn't mean that these needs will be met.

MECHANICALLY, the genitalia  all you need for sex between man and woman and that's my point. So let's not rush with it and let's leave it to marriage, I say.

[MishaK]

MECHANICALLY, the genitalia  all you need for sex between man and woman and that's my point. So let's not rush with it and let's leave it to marriage, I say.

I got your point the first time around. It's still wrong. Lovemaking is about a lot more than insemination. If it were, there are now simpler, less time consuming ways of accomplishing that. But unlike good sex they don't build relationships well. Maybe one day you'll realize that. Again, I don't mean to be nasty, but having had one broken relationship doesn't exactly make you an expert on successful relationships, does it?

[abidoful]

What basically majes an expert? My brother who has been with five women, but always broke up, gee maybe his an expert then? But when I think what bruises it has caused... BTW, why are you guys always raising your eybrows when ever God is being mentioned? Maybe ypou know better than God then whats good for people? He just meant it for marriage and thats it. The rest is fornication.

[MishaK]

What basically majes an expert? My brother who has been with five women, but always broke up, gee maybe his an expert then?

Note that I said successful relationships.

BTW, why are you guys always raising your eybrows when ever God is being mentioned?

Because an argument from scripture only has persuasive effect if your audience consists entirely of believers, which isn't the case with GMG's diverse audience. Accordingly, other arguments tend to be more persuasive in general.

[greg]

The rest is fornication.

Lol
You fornicators!




Seriously, though, I think the world would work better if everyone took pills to completely eliminate sexual desire, so there would be no attraction at all between people, and then if people want to make a kid for some odd reason (and want to raise them), they could artificially inseminate and then sign government paperwork to make it legal (if they make the qualifications to be able to raise them financially and stuff). And no, I'm not kidding. I know no one would approve of that, but, I'm just saying, I think I would be better...

[MishaK]

Seriously, though, I think the world would work better if everyone took pills to completely eliminate sexual desire, so there would be no attraction at all between people, and then if people want to make a kid for some odd reason (and want to raise them), they could artificially inseminate and then sign government paperwork to make it legal (if they make the qualifications to be able to raise them financially and stuff). And no, I'm not kidding. I know no one would approve of that, but, I'm just saying, I think I would be better...

Did you perchance read  Les Particles élémentaires (the Elementary Particles) by Michel Houellebecq? Sounds like you'd like it.

[greg]

Did you perchance read  Les Particles élémentaires (the Elementary Particles) by Michel Houellebecq? Sounds like you'd like it.

Never heard of it- but after reading the plot summary, it sounds very interesting!  Nice that someone out there has the same idea, at least- thanks for the recommendation.

[mahler10th]

Lol
You fornicators!

That guy has same 'hairstyle', same shape of head, same goatee as me.  What a frightful experience.

[Xenophanes]

I seem to have missed this old thread.

Who says the divorce rates are "high"? By what standard?

However, marriage certainly has been changing, particularly since the Industrial Revolution and the rise of wage labor,  and the Enlightenment with its ideals of freedom and equality.  However, it took a long time to arrive at equality between men and women.

People tend to live longer nowadays. There is more time to get tired of each other.

Many women work and can afford to leave a bad marriage.

Here's an interview with the noted historian of marriage, Stephanie Coontz:

http://www.onpointradio.org/2005/06/a-history-of-marriage

She does not give too much advice on marriage, but sometimes she shows some of the things that research suggests.

http://stephaniecoontz.com/articles/article19.htm

[abidoful]

Note that I said successful relationships.

But basically succesfull relationships and unsuccesfull relationships are ended relationships so where's the difference I wonder

[Florestan]

Seriously, though, I think the world would work better if everyone took pills to completely eliminate sexual desire, so there would be no attraction at all between people, and then if people want to make a kid for some odd reason (and want to raise them), they could artificially inseminate and then sign government paperwork to make it legal (if they make the qualifications to be able to raise them financially and stuff). And no, I'm not kidding. I know no one would approve of that, but, I'm just saying, I think I would be better...

Too bad your parents didn't live in such a society...    

Seriously now, this is the same as with those arguing for the reduction of world population: it's always other people that are redundant, never themselves...

[Scarpia]

Seriously now, this is the same as with those arguing for the reduction of world population: it's always other people that are redundant, never themselves...

You don't get it, Greg considers himself redundant.   

[greg]

That guy has same 'hairstyle', same shape of head, same goatee as me.  What a frightful experience.

I thought he looked like you when I saw it.  I didn't choose it because of that- just conveyed the whole pointing and yelling thing perfectly. 

Too bad your parents didn't live in such a society...    

Might have been better... 

[Bulldog]

That's the whole point. It already was and still is so much more, having a piece of paper made no difference.

Glad to hear your marriage is going so well.

[Bulldog]

I think it is the exact opposite way around from what you are saying; I would say jumping in BED without having trust will cause major issues    Many get bruised for starting sexual relationships too early. I think this is just becouse lewdness is considered normal/natural while the view of sex belonging to marriage is not.  Our age is very sex-oriented and young people don't have that safety what you get from realizing that sex belongs to marriage- instead they feel this pressure of starting having sex.

Before I became a Christian, and God's laws on sexual chastity suddenly became clear to me, I had a long sexual relationship with a girl while we weren't  married. After it ended I  have had a long and painful recovery. The way I figure it, you meet someone, fall in love, start dating and getting to know each other before enterting in a marriage and starting that intimate sexual love life. Sex is something very special thing meant exclusively between two people in the safe surroundings of a marriage.

Just keep in mind that others might have different views.  By the way, you sure seem to have "safety" on the brain.

[owlice]

Scarpia wrote: "you can take the attitude that you will make it your mission and commitment to build a happy life together."

I think this is exactly right. If two people are committed to building a happy life together, regardless of what life throws at them, and work to fulfill that commitment, I think it likely their marriage will be successful. I had a sister-in-law who said, at a tough time in her marriage, that if she believed in divorce... but she doesn't, neither does her husband, so they HAD to work through the difficulties.

Some people are not willing to truly commit -- to be there when the other is sick, for example, to share fully. They are willing to get married, but that deep level of commitment isn't there. Sex before or after marriage is as relevant as the people involved wish it to be. If truly committed, sex gets worked out, just as other things do. I know happily married people who did not have sex before marriage, and divorced people (me, for example) who did.

I think some people also expect too much of marriage. They go into it thinking they will always have someone to do [whatever] with, they will never feel loneliness, never have to look elsewhere for simple friendship, that marriage will always be as exciting as courtship. I think that asks too much of the institution.

But hey, what do I know?! I've been married, and divorced, twice. I still like my first husband; he's a good guy. We did not have a good marriage; perhaps if we had sought help sooner with its difficulties, our marriage would have lasted. It was not a stable situation, and having stability for our son was more important than staying married; we are both very committed to parenting our child. (It annoys the kid how much his mom and dad talk, in fact, because the kid cannot divide and conquer!)

[abidoful]

Just keep in mind that others might have different views.

As is usual with between people. That what makes life so interesting

By the way, you sure seem to have "safety" on the brain.

Or, my vocabulary is kind of restricted.

[MishaK]

But basically succesfull relationships and unsuccesfull relationships are ended relationships so where's the difference I wonder

Huh? Since when?