Headphones

[71 dB]

For fans of Amir over at Audio Science Review, these look amazing. "High End" doesn't have to equal big bucks, at least with IEMs. These are $22, and the specs are amazing.
   I've been using a similar $50 pair he recommended a few months ago, and they've become my go-to headphones on my mini rig in my home-corner. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/7hz-salnotes-zero-iem-review.50226/

I ordered these from German Amazon. They were more than $22. I paid 30.21 euros. Free shipping thanks to this being part of an order of over 99 euros. I should get these within 2 weeks.

[71 dB]

I ordered these from German Amazon. They were more than $22. I paid 30.21 euros. Free shipping thanks to this being part of an order of over 99 euros. I should get these within 2 weeks.

So I got the 7Hz Salnote Zeros today. Early comments:

The cable is not marked for L and R as far as I can see. I connected it the wrong way on first try.

When I inserted the IEMs into my ears, the result was very annoying feel of pressure + bassy rumble. I suppose this is typical for IEMs, but I am not used to it as a user of over ear headphones.

The sound is peculiar, very weird mixture of good and bad. The soundstage feels amazingly good (something I did not expect at all from IEMs). The sound feels bassy and thin at the same time.

I need to try these with my portable player outdoor. That's what these are for. I have used Sennheider PX200 headphones, which are great, but have one fault: if it is windy (as it almost always is!), the wind hits the headphone and the noise of wind gets conducted to the ear at loud level masking the music! I was curious if this type of IEM could prevent that from happening?

These are very early impression after maybe 10 minutes of testing. After that my ears felt so uncomfortable I took the IEMs off.

[Mookalafalas]

Not a very positive first experience! I am using mine as I type. I feel nothing but positive. I absolutely forget they are in my ears (so tiny and light). Maybe you should try a different set of ear tips? (there are several sizes included, right?).

[DavidW]

I recently bought the Apple AirPods Max. I'm surprised by how good the sound quality is. I think the bass is a little too one note thumpy, but it doesn't muddy the mids. Surprisingly deep sound stage. Has enough volume to play even the most demanding Mahler symphony with authority. Obviously the soundstage does not have the width of open air cans, but that is fine. Overall the sound is neutral and detailed.

Noise cancellation is excellent but not on par with the gold standard: Sony. But it works very well for my use case.

[71 dB]

Not a very positive first experience! I am using mine as I type. I feel nothing but positive. I absolutely forget they are in my ears (so tiny and light). Maybe you should try a different set of ear tips? (there are several sizes included, right?).

Oh, I didn't realise those tips are different sizes. They look so identical. I need to try them out. My biggest problem is the feel of pressure in ears and when I walk, it is like T-Rex walking! THUMP THUMP THUMP...

EDIT: I changed the default red tips to light blue ones and I think they feel better. There's also light pink (almost white) tips that may work well but I have to try them out...

There is no real user manual with this product. Only some warranty crap and specs in Chinese!

[Holden]

Oh, I didn't realise those tips are different sizes. They look so identical. I need to try them out. My biggest problem is the feel of pressure in ears and when I walk, it is like T-Rex walking! THUMP THUMP THUMP...

EDIT: I changed the default red tips to light blue ones and I think they feel better. There's also light pink (almost white) tips that may work well but I have to try them out...

There is no real user manual with this product. Only some warranty crap and specs in Chinese!

The correct tip size combined with correct insertion will solve those problems. What is strange is moving while not being able to hear anything at all from the outside world. These are perfect for air travel and will also block out the noise of the ubiquitous crying baby you seem to get on every flight nowadays.

[AnotherSpin]

The correct tip size combined with correct insertion will solve those problems. What is strange is moving while not being able to hear anything at all from the outside world. These are perfect for air travel and will also block out the noise of the ubiquitous crying baby you seem to get on every flight nowadays.

I walk around in headphones on the street quite regularly. Our system of perceiving the world around us is quite complex and involves not our ears only, we can adapt to every possible scenario quite quickly. Blind or lame people walk down the street, why can't we do it with headphones?

[71 dB]

The correct tip size combined with correct insertion will solve those problems.

Yet there is zero* instructions about these things. I need to figure it all out myself and these are my first IEMs. I am not experienced or knowledgeable about this subject.

* Maybe that's why the product is named 7Hz Salnotes Zero?

[Holden]

Yet there is zero* instructions about these things. I need to figure it all out myself and these are my first IEMs. I am not experienced or knowledgeable about this subject.

* Maybe that's why the product is named 7Hz Salnotes Zero?

Ignoring the wires down the back of the shirt (first clip) this guy shows you that by lifting the top of your ear it makes insertion easier. You can pull down on the earlobe instead for the same result.

Avoid inserting too deeply at the beginning. Once they are in try twisting and turning them until you hear solid well defined bass. This shows that they have sealed. If you feel too much pressure in your ears then pull the iems out very slightly while still retaining that solid deep bass. It's a bit fiddly at the start but once perfected the sound is well worth it.

These might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGis_WGRhBs

or, as these are similar in body size to your Crinacles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WiGd-qcaYs

[71 dB]

Ignoring the wires down the back of the shirt (first clip) this guy shows you that by lifting the top of your ear it makes insertion easier. You can pull down on the earlobe instead for the same result.

Avoid inserting too deeply at the beginning. Once they are in try twisting and turning them until you hear solid well defined bass. This shows that they have sealed. If you feel too much pressure in your ears then pull the iems out very slightly while still retaining that solid deep bass. It's a bit fiddly at the start but once perfected the sound is well worth it.

These might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGis_WGRhBs

or, as these are similar in body size to your Crinacles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WiGd-qcaYs

Wow, I didn't know there is this much to wearing IEMs!  There's so many tricks to learn!

Thanks!

[drogulus]

     I only like big closed back headphones that look technical.

     I have considered getting an upgrade for my Bluetooth Sony MX3s I use for late night listening to cat videos and JWST news about early galaxies. Do I really need them? The MX5s are out and I reckon they are an improvement. I don't know if it's worth it.

[Valentino]

For cat videos? Of course they are.

[steve ridgway]

Thanks for all the useful information, particularly the discussion of impedance . I read all the way through plus some reviews and bought the Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X to go with my new Astell & Kern SR35 media player. I just wanted a good quality pair appropriate to the device. I don't have any comparison experience but am happy with the clarity, detail and comfort so don't intend to pursue the subject any further.

[DavidW]

Thanks for all the useful information, particularly the discussion of impedance . I read all the way through plus some reviews and bought the Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X to go with my new Astell & Kern SR35 media player. I just wanted a good quality pair appropriate to the device. I don't have any comparison experience but am happy with the clarity, detail and comfort so don't intend to pursue the subject any further.

Oh cool, if that is the successor to the 990 pros... I loved those things!  I currently have the 1990s, which are great.  Probably the best sounding headphones I have.  Unfortunately for them the Sennheiser 660s2 sounds just slightly worse, while being way more comfortable.

If you haven't owned Beyers before, just beware that they have a treble spike.  I'm old enough that I'm not terribly sensitive to that spike, I'm more sensitive to those upper mids like some Sennheiser headphones push.

[drogulus]

    I love my 770 Pro 'phones. They sound great, are pretty comfortable and are perfect for detecting the propellers of enemy destroyers.

[steve ridgway]

If you haven't owned Beyers before, just beware that they have a treble spike.  I'm old enough that I'm not terribly sensitive to that spike, I'm more sensitive to those upper mids like some Sennheiser headphones push.

That was my reasoning too, and I could always use the 20 band EQ if it came to it. Also that these are 48 ohm headphones so I wouldn't need a separate amp - mid volume in the normal power range of my player is fine.

[Bachtoven]

I recently posted about my wonderful new Schitt Audio Lyr headphone amp:


and out of curiosity, I tried my Audeze LCD-XC headphones, which I had put away about a year ago because of their weight and lack of comfort compared to my Sennheiser HD800S and Focal Stellia--wow! They sound richer and weightier than either of those. Once I've had them on for a few minutes, I'm not that aware of any discomfort.

[Spotted Horses]

Just sharing a little discovery. In the past I've used a headphone amp from headroom (defunct) that included a crossfeed feature. I have not had access to crossfeed once this thing became totally obsolete and I couldn't find reasonable hardware with the same feature.

I just noticed that when listening to stereo recordings with excessive stereo separation (some sound sources are essentially in one channel only) Apple "Spacialization," part of their headphone driver, does something which sounds similar to crossfeed. I works quite nicely on my AirPods Max. Spacialization with Dolby Atmos is something different and more aggressive, representing a true surround sound recording in two channels.

I think I will enable specialization selectively on recordings with excessive separation, since well-made classical recordings have specialization built in.

[71 dB]

I just noticed that when listening to stereo recordings with excessive stereo separation (some sound sources are essentially in one channel only) Apple "Spacialization," part of their headphone driver, does something which sounds similar to crossfeed. It works quite nicely on my AirPods Max. Spacialization with Dolby Atmos is something different and more aggressive, representing a true surround sound recording in two channels.

I think I will enable specialization selectively on recordings with excessive separation, since well-made classical recordings have specialization built in.

The correct terminology is audio spatialization.

Sound sources placed in one channel only is called hard panning. The resulting stereophonic sound of hard panning is called ping-pong stereo and it was common in the early days of commercial stereo sound (late 50s and early 60s). Later the use of stereophonic sound became more sophisticated, but in general stereophonic sound is produced for loudspeakers rather than headphones.

When listening to speakers, The sound from the speakers get cross-fed acoustically before entering our ears. That's why stereophonic recordings tend to contain "excessive" amount of channel separation. The acoustic arrangement of speakers and the listener in a room makes sure the spatial properties of the sound happens on natural levels.

When listening to headphones, acoustic cross-feeding is totally omitted (there is very low amount of acoustic leakage between the ears, but it is insignificant compared to the amount of cross-feed needed). The amount of channel separation present in the recording enters our spatial hearing "as is." The result is perceived spatiality that is very unnatural. Most people are simply used to this as part of what headphone sound is, but headphone sound can be much better, if the sound is processed appropriately.

Layman's intuition says "wider" soundstage on headphones takes larger channel separation, but the reality is more complex than that. In reality the widest soundstage is perceived when the spatial properties of the sound match natural levels for sounds at large distance on the left and right side of the listener. If this sweet spot is missed either side, the result is less wide sound. A sound source (e.g. a fly) very near one ear creates massive sound pressure level differences between the ears (kind of what hard panning does) and our spatial hearing interprets this spatial cue as a sound source very near one ear. This is why large channel separation and hard panned stereophony doesn't give "wide" sound on headphone. Some people may call that "wide", but it is just unnatural spatiality people taking as something "wide."

It is possible to create spatiality that works pretty well on both speakers and headphones by making clever compromises and using sophisticated tools. This kind of production style has become more common in popular music as people use more headphones to listen to music. Classical recordings have never really been about maximal channel separation, but rather more natural spatiality (on speakers). Depending on who, when and where has been producing and mixing, the resulting spatiality suites for headphones listening in various degrees. I own recordings (some rather than many) which need zero cross-feed, because the spatiality is on point. The rest require cross-feed at various levels. Some recordings just a little bit and some others very dramatic cross-feed.

There are personal differences in how excessive spatiality is perceived. It seems some people tolerate it more than others. I believe I am very sensitive to it: Even little bit of excessive spatiality annoys me. It feels like mechanical vibration of the headphone or someone touching my ears. It is almost ticklish. Also, the soundstage appears "fuzzy" and closer to my head, low frequencies feel "fake" rather than physical and I feel the excessive spatiality even masks other things in the sound. When I cross-feed enough, these sensations go completely away and the sound just feels right. I can tell what does or doesn't work for myself, but that doesn't mean the same things apply to others. It is even possible my autism and the sensory overload issues linked to it cause this sensitivity, but I just don't know for sure. Just as we don't know if other people see the colours the same way, we can't know if other people experience spatiality the same way. Many people who have used cross-feed tell they only use it for hard panned recordings. This indicates these individual tolerate more excessive spatiality I do, because I use cross-feed almost always. Only some rare recordings (maybe 2 % of my music collection) in my opinion have spatiality suitable for headphone listening out of the box. The rest 98 % benefit from at least mildest cross-feed, but that's me with my autism and all.

Personally I don't have experience of Dolby Atmos etc. I am not rich enough to follow technical advances closely. However, I am pretty sure I would be using those ALWAYS if I had them. I believe they are even better than good old cross-feed invented over half a century ago! 

[Spotted Horses]

Yes. The problem is that the brain's audio processing compares the sound heard in both ears, using the relative phase to localize the sound source and if a sound is total absent from one ear this fails and the sound seems disembodied (to me). The big improvement was in a Rilling recording of a Bach Canata where the figured bass (organ, bass viol and cello) was exclusively in the right channel. Pretty odd having such clumsy stereo imaging in a relatively modern recording. Having a low frequency sound from the organ in only one ear is particularly unsatisfactory. Apple spatialized stereo fixed that. My experience is that in a recording that I consider to have good stereo imaging the stereo spatialization sound a little different, but I couldn't say if it was better or worse.

The one off-putting thing about Apple Spatialized Stereo is that it is only available when using Apple headphones or earbuds. One version of it has head-tracking which requires specific hardware, but there is also a fixed option which they could enable on other headsets, in principle. The recordings where I would most like to have it are early stereo jazz recordings, and I typically don't listen to these using my Apple EarPods Max headphones. Other headphone makers such as Bose and Sony have spatialized audio, but only seem to support surround sound sources, such as Dolby Atmos. For non-classical I typically use Sony WM1000XM4 bluetooth headphones, and I have not found any spatialization mode that the Sony system can apply to stereo sources.

I also turned on Spatialization on a few Dolby Atmos sources (classical). In one case the sound suddenly because very unpleasantly reverberant, in another it didn't seem to make much difference. Depends on the audio engineering, I suppose. I conclude I am not very interested in faux surround sound, but a sophisticated cross-feed for stereo sources can be helpful.