Headphones

[drogulus]

      I think this combination would be the best way to have all the power options (USB, battery, wall power) plus portability at the most reasonable price:

     

      Headroom Portable Micro Amp With DAC 599.00

      Along with:

     

      Astrodyne Switching Power Supply 119.00

      This amp/DAC does come with a wall power unit which you are only supposed to use as a recharger. If I'm reading the info at Headroom correctly the Astrodyne is a genuine AC power supply which you can use while operating the amp.

[drogulus]

It gets worse.  I read on a review site that running off USB it clips at 5V (USP power supply voltage) vs 6V when run off batteries. (That is why the manufacturer says you shouldn't use rechargable batteries, which don't quite meet the spec for a proper AAA battery and only give you 4.8 volts.)   It has a power switch which is (USB power/battery power) when no analog input connected and (power off/battery power) with analog input connected.  Therefore you can't run off USB power when selecting analog source.  I have half a mind to solder a 6V power supply directly to the battery contacts to run it off an AC adapter.

http://www.headphone.com/pdfs/TheBitHeadManual.pdf

     nut-job, do you have a link to that review?

[nut-job]

     nut-job, do you have a link to that review?

http://www.dansdata.com/bithead.htm

      I think this combination would be the best way to have all the power options (USB, battery, wall power) plus portability at the most reasonable price:

At more than $700, not reasonable for the mid-fi purpose I have in mind.   I'm still thinking of the soldering-iron solution.  If it can run off crappy USB dc power, it should run fine of a decent 6V regulated dc supply.

[drogulus]

      Thanks, nut-job, that's the review I read. The reviewer doesn't actually say that his listening tests were done with the USB connection. He does say:

     The BitHead in USB mode, however, is a clear step up from integrated motherboard audio output - and, I'd confidently say, from the output quality of a bunch of add-on sound cards, too.

      And:

      Wind the USB-connected BitHead all the way up, though, and you don't hear the thrum of computer background activity, at least partly because the whole audio adapter is outside the computer case, not just the final amplifier. The BitHead itself is, for practical intents and purposes, silent.

      Ideally, I would want a wall power supply delivering the full 6 volts. Practically, I don't think it will matter at real-world volumes. Perhaps there would be a problem with some exotic headphones. I don't think the owners of such phones would even consider a product like this.
     

[nut-job]

      Ideally, I would want a wall power supply delivering the full 6 volts. Practically, I don't think it will matter at real-world volumes. Perhaps there would be a problem with some exotic headphones. I don't think the owners of such phones would even consider a product like this.

Probably I could live with 5 volts.  I can't live with feeding the thing batteries if I wanted to use it as to amplify an analog signal.

[jlaurson]

Had the opportunity to compare Headphones last week: Sennheiser Orpheus vs. Sennheiser HD800 vs. Sennheiser HD650. (And a few others, like Bayerdynamics DT 770, 880, 990 -- but connected to different equipment on thus not really comparable.)

I used to think that the HD 650 were excellent; in some ways a touch better than my HD580 (which I stubbornly prefer over HD600, HD595, and in certain aspects even over the 650s I had tested a while ago).

Well, compared to the HD800, HD650 sounds -- as Karajan might say -- like "Gaslight". It's like staying at luxury hotel (say Villa Hassler in Rome) for a few nights and then having to move into a Four Star hotel... which suddenly looks like a drab Best Western. Really quite unbelievable how clear, detailed, and spacious they sounded. Compared to the Orpheus perhaps a little too clean.... like pine instead of oak, but that difference was fairly small and really only one of sound character preference. (I presume that that difference could be further reduced by hooking the HD800 to a tube amp, instead of the solid state amp they had it on. The Orpheus, of course, is necessarily hooked to its own (tube) amp.)

Going back to the 650 from that was like sitting down in a musky, worn velvet covered chair. Staggering. Talk about the great being the enemy of the good.

I pine for the day I can hook them up to this baby [referring to the amp]:

[Kuhlau]

I'm enjoying my AKG K-501 cans anew now that I have in my office an Onkyo CR-525UKD. Not high-end, of course, but it has a surprisingly commendable headphone amp.

Given that this little all-in-one box only outputs to speakers at 26w per channel, I didn't hold much hope of it being able to drive my AKGs. But with the volume knob turned to just a little way above 50%, I'm getting a comfortable listen, a lovely, clear mid-range presentation ... and more bass weight than critics credit to these cans.

FK

[Coopmv]

I am done with headphones for the foreseeable future since I already have the Sennheiser HD600, AKG 701 and Beyerdynamic DT990, two wireless each by Sennheiser and Panasonic, AKG 240 (from my college days) and 2 older Philips models plus two portables active-noice cancellation models from AKG and Audio-Technica.  I may consider some tube-based headphone amp at some point ...

[Scarpia]

Anyone have experience with this DAC/headphone amp, or the company that makes it?

[George]

as a MAJOR headphone upgrade.  I'd just been grooving to the Sennheiser 555's at home.  Back in grad school I used to have the 580s, but they're not made any more.

Congrats!

What became of your 580s? (signed, a nervous 580 owner)

Also, which ones are those above? 650s?

[DavidW]

Congrats!

What became of your 580s? (signed, a nervous 580 owner)

Also, which ones are those above? 650s?

Oh I sold my 580s because I (for the most part) had stopped listening to music after grad school.  I sold my 580s, my 501s and my a900s.  They filled a musical spectrum-- 580s for the all rounder and impressive sound stage, 501s for highly detailed mids, a900s for sparkly highs and deep bass.  That's funny they were my favorite headphones and NONE of them are made anymore!

That's really a shame about the k501s in particular, they had the best mids, for chamber music they are unsurpassed.  I haven't heard the k601s or 701s, but general head-fi consensus was that they are a big step down for classical.

[George]

Oh I sold my 580s because I (for the most part) had stopped listening to music after grad school.  I sold my 580s, my 501s and my a900s.  They filled a musical spectrum-- 580s for the all rounder and impressive sound stage, 501s for highly detailed mids, a900s for sparkly highs and deep bass.  That's funny they were my favorite headphones and NONE of them are made anymore!

That's really a shame about the k501s in particular, they had the best mids, for chamber music they are unsurpassed.  I haven't heard the k601s or 701s, but general head-fi consensus was that they are a big step down for classical.

Thanks Dave. I love my 580s, except for piano music, when that Sennehesier veil rears it's ugly head and makes the treble notes sound dull. Luckily, much of this can be alleviated by bumping the treble up a few notches. 

I notice this dulling a lot on pop/rock stuff too, as of late, again I usually bump the treble a bit. For all those overly bright CDs though, the Senns sound great. Many historical CDs also sound less harsh through the HP too.

[DavidW]

Thanks Dave. I love my 580s, except for piano music, when that Sennehesier veil rears it's ugly head and makes the treble notes sound dull. Luckily, much of this can be alleviated by bumping the treble up a few notches. 

I notice this dulling a lot on pop/rock stuff too, as of late, again I usually bump the treble a bit. For all those overly bright CDs though, the Senns sound great. Many historical CDs also sound less harsh through the HP too.

It sounds like you need a complementary headphone, when the veil makes it uninvolving.  The extreme polar end is found in the Grado headphones (I used to have a pair and they are very fun, but very exhausting) which are extremely forward with very pronounced highs.  I personally use Audio Technica ath-ad700 (it's my work phone), they have pronounced mids and sparkly highs, they are very bright sounding, but the bass is rolled off, more subdued than the in your face Grado, but far brighter than Sennheisers.  They can be found for $50-$100, and might be worth it if you have the money.

Head-fiers tend to say that the dt880's are the opposite classical cans from the 580/600/650 sound signature, but they're like $300!

[George]

The HD580s (but only when well driven) still hold up really, really well, I find.

Do you mean with a HP amp? And do mean that the treble sounds significantly less veiled when amplified properly?

But If clarity is desired, the HD 800 is the new game in town. Tested those against the Sennheiser Orpheus and HD 650 (the latter sounded shockingly inferior in direct comparison) and they are unbelievable when it comes to detail and clarity. And, for headphones, they create an amazing space around the ears. It's less like headphone-listening than any headphones I've heard.

Those sound very nice, but I bet they are way out of my range.

[jlaurson]

Do you mean with a HP amp? And do mean that the treble sounds significantly less veiled when amplified properly?

Insuficiently amplified (which is really any time you plug them directly into a non-Headphone Amp outlet), the HD 580 (or any above, 555 are specced differently) sound like crap. It's a worthless listening experience because it's a limpid, muffled mess. When first had mine and plugged them into my computer and/or amplifier and/or CD Walkman, I was horrified at the money I had just spent on such a badly performing piece of equipment. Then it dawned upon me that any headphones with an impedance of 300 Ohm might require amplification that can handle 300 Ohm. Not 16 (iPod) or ~32 (typical CD walkman, most sound-card outlets), or somewhere between 32 and 120 Ohm (typical HP outlets). X-Cans did the job well enough. Now I have dedicated tube amps from Estro Armonico and it's a dream.

Those sound very nice, but I bet they are way out of my range.

They ain't cheap... that's true. Probably around $1400,- (1000,- Euro)
Compares nicely to the Orpheus, though, which cost ten times that.  

[George]

Insuficiently amplified (which is really any time you plug them directly into a non-Headphone Amp outlet), the HD 580 (or any above, 555 are specced differently) sound like crap. It's a worthless listening experience because it's a limpid, muffled mess. When first had mine and plugged them into my computer and/or amplifier and/or CD Walkman, I was horrified at the money I had just spent on such a badly performing piece of equipment. Then it dawned upon me that any headphones with an impedance of 600 Ohm might require amplification that can handle 300 Ohm. Not 16 (iPod) or ~32 (typical CD walkman, most sound-card outlets), or somewhere between 32 and 120 Ohm (typical HP outlets). X-Cans did the job well enough. Now I have dedicated tube amps from Estro Armonico and it's a dream.

Thanks Jens!

Is this the amp you mean?

It costs more than my HP.  

Specifically though, I wouldn't imagine that I would hear a different frequency range with an amp. Am I wrong in this?

[DavidW]

Specifically though, I wouldn't imagine that I would hear a different frequency range with an amp. Am I wrong in this?

The impedance is a function of frequency and it peaks at 100 Hz with a whopping 550+ ohms!  Poorly amplified, the 580 will effectively be bloated and not neutral.  Here is a graph of the 600's impedance (same driver as the 580) which illustrates the point.



So the headphone will interact with a poor amp in a frequency dependent way.

[jlaurson]

Thanks Jens!

Is this the amp you mean?

It costs more than my HP.  

Those are among the ones that are decent quality.

Yes, well... and it's still only 1/10 or less the price of similar hi-fi quality via speakers. Headphones + Amps is a very cost efficient way of enjoying some of your music (or all of your music, some of the time) in extremely high fidelity.

Specifically though, I wouldn't imagine that I would hear a different frequency range with an amp. Am I wrong in this?

Yes and no. Ever "manipulate" photos on your computer? Perhaps you had underexposed a picture and are now adding lightness or you are saturating the colors... and you realize how much information was contained with that picture, even though you didn't see it in the way it initially displayed. That's how ampification works: It doesn't add any information (well, ideally it doesn't, at any rate), it allows it to come through. (Like removing or cleaning the grimy varnish of an old oil painting.)

If you find lifting the trebles is acceptable in making the (piano) music sound better (although it is a distortion of the picture), I would think that not having to do that, because what treble there is finally comes through, would have a positive effect.

p.s. better listen to DavidW who explains it in a much more acousto-physically-appropriate way.

[George]

The impedance is a function of frequency and it peaks at 100 Hz with a whopping 550+ ohms!  Poorly amplified, the 580 will effectively be bloated and not neutral.

Thanks for the photo and the explanation. If I understand this properly, the higher impedance at that frequency (without ample power) would result in a less bassy sound, right? Since there is more resistance at those frequencies, less information from those frequencies will be heard. Yet, I am having the opposite effect.

[George]

Those are among the ones that are decent quality.

Yes, well... and it's still only 1/10 or less the price of similar hi-fi quality via speakers. Headphones + Amps is a very cost efficient way of enjoying some of your music (or all of your music, some of the time) in extremely high fidelity.

I see your point but my speakers were $300 and I love them. I prefer speaker listening, in fact. I just wish my HP sounded more like my speakers. I also wish that I could test drive some of these amps. The stores don't seem to carry them. 

Yes and no. Ever "manipulate" photos on your computer? Perhaps you had underexposed a picture and are now adding lightness or you are saturating the colors... and you realize how much information was contained with that picture, even though you didn't see it in the way it initially displayed. That's how ampification works: It doesn't add any information (well, ideally it doesn't, at any rate), it allows it to come through. (Like removing or cleaning the grimy varnish of an old oil painting.)

That makes a lot of sense, actually. A lifting of the veil.

If you find lifting the trebles is acceptable in making the (piano) music sound better (although it is a distortion of the picture), I would think that not having to do that, because what treble there is finally comes through, would have a positive effect.

If I could be sure that a $200 HP amp would get my HP sounding balanced, I would seriously consider it. I agree that the treble solution is a band aid that throws the tonal balance off in other ways, but I actually don't listen to my HP that often, as I prefer to listen on speakers. My girlfriend forces me into it when she's home.