Headphones

[Holden]

I just picked these up used from Ebay



I needed a set of open cans and these simply sound magnificent. I'm afraid to try my Shure SRH840s again because I'm worried that when I do I'll never want to listen to them again at home.

[DavidW]

Nice Holden!  Those were the headphones I had in grad school.  Do you like your nuforce?  I'll be honest my udac2 I don't like. It clips unless you lower the digital volume in windows.  You shouldn't have to they designed it poorly to maximize S/N.  It overheats after about an hour and starts to sound very bad even over optical out.  I got this $30 behringer and it doesn't overheat and doesn't have any clipping problems and cost 1/3 the price.

Anyway I bought the akg k430 recently and for portable headphones they are not quite sensitive enough, but other than that awesome.  They are no super hifi compete with the big dogs but for my walks they're perfect.  I going to cull my headphone collection soon.

I'm honestly tired of the lack of treble in my Sennheiser 650s, I have decided that they are too dark, and I'm going to replace them with the more neutral Denon d2000.

[Holden]

Hello Mozartfan

I'm not having the issues with the uDAC2 that you are, in fact I'm finding it very good. I always have my W7 volume set on max and adjust my uDAC accordingly. The vol control at the moment is set to 10:30/11:00 o'clock. Yes, my uDAC2 heats up but not overly so.

Regarding your 650s and replacing them with the D2000s, the Denons are closed back and will give a different sound signature from the 650s. Changing from my Shure SRH840s to the 580s has been a total revelation and I wonder if going to the Denon's might be a retrograde step. I don't find lack of treble to be an issue with the 580s and a quick tweak of my media player can make up for this quite easily.

Is the Behringer the UCA202? From what I've read it's an analogue sound card and not a DAC but I could be wrong here. However, if it's working for you then go for it.

If you do decide to go for the Denon's and want to sell the 650s then please let me know.

Nice Holden!  Those were the headphones I had in grad school.  Do you like your nuforce?  I'll be honest my udac2 I don't like. It clips unless you lower the digital volume in windows.  You shouldn't have to they designed it poorly to maximize S/N.  It overheats after about an hour and starts to sound very bad even over optical out.  I got this $30 behringer and it doesn't overheat and doesn't have any clipping problems and cost 1/3 the price.

Anyway I bought the akg k430 recently and for portable headphones they are not quite sensitive enough, but other than that awesome.  They are no super hifi complete with the big dogs but for my walks they're perfect.  I going to cull my headphone collection soon.

I'm honestly tired of the lack of treble in my Sennheiser 650s, I have decided that they are too dark, and I'm going to replace them with the more neutral Denon d2000.

[jlaurson]

...

Regarding your 650s and replacing them with the D2000s, the Denons are closed back and will give a different sound signature from the 650s. ...
If you do decide to go for the Denon's and want to sell the 650s then please let me know.

I am positively biased toward Sennheiser 580 (especially) and even 650, but I couldn't imagine running either without a good headphone amp. I can see why they'd be described as 'dark', but bass-poor? That seems to suggest an amplification problem. 

As far as upgrading from 580 to 650... well... if 650s can be had for an excellent prize, I suppose there's merit to having both. But it might be worth a thought or two to put the money in the piggy bank as a down-payment for going all out on the HD800... because those are simply a quantum-leap better than HD650... in fact, they make them look pretty bad. And, unlike HD580 or 650, HD800 are not nearly as picky as far as amplification is concerned.

[DavidW]

I am positively biased toward Sennheiser 580 (especially) and even 650, but I couldn't imagine running either without a good headphone amp. I can see why they'd be described as 'dark', but bass-poor? That seems to suggest an amplification problem. 

Who ever said anything about bass poor??  I said it lacks treble, i.e. overly dark.  Anyway my total airhead has sufficient voltage to handle the 650s, and my receiver does too.  Those that spend alot of money on amplification have a poor understanding of electronics.

Hello Mozartfan

I'm not having the issues with the uDAC2 that you are, in fact I'm finding it very good. I always have my W7 volume set on max and adjust my uDAC accordingly. The vol control at the moment is set to 10:30/11:00 o'clock. Yes, my uDAC2 heats up but not overly so.

Have you tried pop music (since it has little headroom while classical has alot)?  That's the stuff that clips. Classical not so much.  Anyway the overheating is the real problem, I must have a defective model if you don't have that problem because it makes it sound absolutely terrible after awhile.  Or the model I have (which is not the same as yours) is just designed poorly.

Regarding your 650s and replacing them with the D2000s, the Denons are closed back and will give a different sound signature from the 650s. Changing from my Shure SRH840s to the 580s has been a total revelation and I wonder if going to the Denon's might be a retrograde step. I don't find lack of treble to be an issue with the 580s and a quick tweak of my media player can make up for this quite easily.

IMO the 580s don't sound like the 650s, the 580s have excellent bass and upper-midrange, slightly recessed treble, and recessed mids.  The 650s have excellent bass, excellent mids, and recessed upper-mids and treble.  Also the 580s have a wide soundstage but only moderately deep, while the 650s have a deep soundstage that is only moderately wide.  So while those two different headphones have roughly the same Sennheiser sound signature, they actually sound quite a bit different.  The 800s are apparently closer to neutral, but why by that when you can spend a fraction of the money with a different brand that is neutral.

Is the Behringer the UCA202? From what I've read it's an analogue sound card and not a DAC but I could be wrong here. However, if it's working for you then go for it.

Well I have the UCA222 which has the optical out.  So it can pass the digital signal without touching it, it also can send out an analogue signal.  I don't see what the difference would be between a sound card and a DAC, an external sound card would still have to convert the digital signal from usb to analog, which means that it literally is or has a DAC.  

[Scarpia]

Well I have the UCA222 which has the optical out.  So it can pass the digital signal without touching it, it also can send out an analogue signal.  I don't see what the difference would be between a sound card and a DAC, an external sound card would still have to convert the digital signal from usb to analog, which means that it literally is or has a DAC.

I noticed some advertising copy about this unit having 48kHz converters.  Does the digital output at 44.1kHz come at the native frequency, or is it resampled to 48kHz?

[jlaurson]

Who ever said anything about bass poor??  I said it lacks treble, i.e. overly dark.

Hmmm... I thought you had, before editing your post. Or perhaps I misread.

Anyway my total airhead has sufficient voltage to handle the 650s, and my receiver does too.  Those that spend alot of money on amplification have a poor understanding of electronics.
...
Well I have the UCA222 which has the optical out.  So it can pass the digital signal without touching it, it also can send out an analogue signal.  I don't see what the difference would be between a sound card and a DAC, an external sound card would still have to convert the digital signal from usb to analog, which means that it literally is or has a DAC.

It doesn't take a particular grasp on "electronics" to figure out what properly drives a device with Ω600, and what doesn't. (R=E²/P, actually... well... more like E=√PxR... but then that's the same.) +/- 15V isn't going to cut it...  and the headphone jacks in most current non-HiFi equipment don't have more. To suggest -- I am not sure if you do -- that matching the source impedance to the load impedance does not have audible effects on the performance of the equipment would be very novel and controversial, indeed. One doesn't need to spend a lot of money (necessarily) to drive headphones well, but one does need to take a little care in plugging the right cans into the right source.

A sound card has its own DAC, of course, but not all DACs are the same. (In fact, the DAC is pretty much the only really meaningful way in which digital devices differ from another in terms of sound quality.

[DavidW]

I noticed some advertising copy about this unit haveing 48kHz converters.  Does the digital output at 44.1kHz come at the native frequency, or is it resampled to 48kHz?

I had to plug it in to confirm with you... but my receiver says that it receives a 44.1 kHz signal from the device, so there you go!   And to make sure I even played some music on winamp, it didn't change though, remained 44.1 kHz.

[Scarpia]

Hmmm... I thought you had, before editing your post. Or perhaps I misread. A sound card has its own DAC, of course, but not all DACs are the same. (In fact, the DAC is pretty much the only really meaningful way in which digital devices differ from another in terms of sound quality.

I would have said the opposite.  The DAC itself is normally a self-contained chip manufactured by one of the well known manufacturers, and almost all good audio equipment uses one of a few serious DACs on the market.  I am more concerned about the supporting circuitry, the quality of the analog amplification, the quality of the power supply, isolation of the digital circuit from the analog circuit.  That stuff depends on the design, the components and the manufacturing quality, not just whether the $25 or the $35 DAC chip was picked from the Cybex catalog. 

[SonicMan46]

Bluetooth Headphones - I've put a lot of music on my iPod which I use while walking on a treadmill, in the airport, and reading esp. while on trips (hotel rooms, lobbies, etc.) - would LIKE to really go wireless; BUT, the reviews (like on Amazon) seem so varied - some love certain models but then there are just other poor responses, particularly regarding design, comfort, reception, quality of sound, compactness, etc.

So, are there any stereo BT headphones at a decent price that would fulfill some of my requirements above?  Thanks for any comments or advice - Dave 

[jlaurson]

I would have said the opposite.  The DAC itself is normally a self-contained chip manufactured by one of the well known manufacturers, and almost all good audio equipment uses one of a few serious DACs on the market.  I am more concerned about the supporting circuitry, the quality of the analog amplification, the quality of the power supply, isolation of the digital circuit from the analog circuit.  That stuff depends on the design, the components and the manufacturing quality, not just whether the $25 or the $35 DAC chip was picked from the Cybex catalog.

I think I wasn't precise. By "DAC" I meant everything between the digital signal IN and the analog signal OUT... not just whether the actual chip is a high-end Burr-Brown or cent-ware from Taiwan Audio Garage 2000.

[DavidRoss]

Still lovin' my AKG 701s driven by a Channel Islands VHP 1 fed by a bel canto DAC2.  Good enough that I doubt I'll ever feel an urge to replace any of it.  And now my brief visit here has left me with an irresistible desire to hear MTT/SFS's DLVDE through this bit of kit.

Cheers, y'all!

[Holden]

Have you tried pop music (since it has little headroom while classical has alot)?  That's the stuff that clips. Classical not so much.

Now I do notice a difference but only if I turn the sound up somewhat. As for the distortion upon heating that is not an issue so I suspect that you have a defective model.

Having now spent some time with the 580s I am coming to the realisation that what has been mentioned in this thread about power for high impedance headphones might just well be true. I feel this need to turn up the volume to get more detail and sparkle from the Senns yet I never felt this with the Shures.  I'm surmising that this is because the uDAC-2 does not have the power to drive my 580s well enough to get what they are capable of producing unless I increase the volume to levels that I don't really want to subject my ears to for long periods of time. My 150w HiFi amp was custom made and the headphone jack and the amp to go with it were specially added for me. Listening through that has revealed a whole new experience of these extremely good 'phones.

So now it's time to bite the bullet and look for something I can play out of my PC that will drive my 580s. I'm looking for a DAC/amp combination that will do these phones justice. As I am unlikely to take my Senns traveling with me portability is no longer a requirement. In consideration at the moment are:

Portable DAC/amps:

Audinst HUD MX-1
iBasso D6

Wall powered DAC/amps
Fiio E7/E9
Zero 24/96
Beresford TC-7520

$300 is tops

Any other thoughts or suggestions gladly accepted.

[DavidW]

Having now spent some time with the 580s I am coming to the realisation that what has been mentioned in this thread about power for high impedance headphones might just well be true. I feel this need to turn up the volume to get more detail and sparkle from the Senns yet I never felt this with the Shures.

What you are describing is the treble roll-off that Senns are known for (their dark sound signature).  It's treble that gives you that sparkle, and the upper mids that give you that sense of detail.  Your Shure 840s are neutral monitors, they have more treble.  You should try playing around with equalizer settings in your favorite media player before you spend money on amps.  A good amp will be neutral (there are plenty of audiophile amps that are not neutral though) and your Senns will still not sparkle.  Adding a few dB's on the treble frequencies will take you a minute and cost you nothing.  If you're still not satisfied then go with buying an amp.

[lisa needs braces]

I pulled the trigger on the Sennheiser HD 555. I've been using an HD202 ($30ish) these past years and it was the only way I listened to music. Hopefully these are a tremendous improvement.

I also got this microphone:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00029MTMQ

You just clip it on a headphone and you have a gaming headset.

Now if only Amazon will ship them.

Also, it would appear that there really isn't much of a difference between the HD555 and the HD 595 except that Sennheiser deliberately hobbled the former's potential in a way that's rectifiable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQ8PzBrHXE

[DavidW]

Enjoy the 555s Abe.  I've had mine for four years (just sold it yesterday!) and they are good headphones, excellent detail, dark and warm sound signature, easy to use with ipods, mp3 players etc

I will say this I have heard both 555 and the 595 and know about the foam mod... it doesn't turn a 555 into a 595.  The foam is most likely used to dampen a resonant frequency, which the 595 would not have since it's driver is angled (resonant frequencies will depend on the shape and size of the chamber), (in fact that was my problem with the 595... the driver bumped up against my ears!).  If you remove the foam the 555 will sound less refined than it did before and it will certainly not sound better.  Anyway my experience with the 595 is that it had a better soundstage, and more detailed as compared to the 555 with or without foam.

I'm bidding on an open box 598 right now, I look forward to hearing some bright Sennheisers for a chance of pace.

[Renfield]

Re the Senn 202's, I was absolutely floored with their audio quality, considering how much they cost! I recently got a pair of them to replace my old PX200 that I gave away (though not because I didn't like them - quite the contrary)

If there's one thing less than ideal about them, it's that they're a little bulky. But the 'slot' they filled for me, closed-back and portable, is mostly for the (hypothetical, due to my current financial state) train or plane, so that's fine.


Also, it's interesting how the μDAC2 seems to have a rather different 'identity' to the first one. By no means is the μDAC an amplifying beast, but it's clean, dependable, and I wouldn't say it burns a hole through my desk.

I know they tweaked it a bit for the second iteration, and now I feel quite happy I didn't opt for the upgrade offer.


(Headphones: the topic to break my forum hiatus for, that isn't Mahler. )

[DavidW]

To contradict you here is a review where this guy objectively demonstrated the shortfallings of the udac:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.html

I have heard the imbalance at low volumes, but don't usually listen that low.  No the main concern for me is the clipping which is very evident in pop music.  Also the strange unflat frequency response with most headphones.  It's also interesting to note that nuforce was caught lieing about the total harmonic distortion and the dynamic range.

So far the only headphone amp that behaved well for me is headroom's total airhead.  If I want something better than what I have now I would probably go with either their total bithead or the fiio e7.

[Renfield]

To contradict you here is a review where this guy objectively demonstrated the shortfallings of the udac:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.html

I have heard the imbalance at low volumes, but don't usually listen that low.  No the main concern for me is the clipping which is very evident in pop music.  Also the strange unflat frequency response with most headphones.  It's also interesting to note that nuforce was caught lieing about the total harmonic distortion and the dynamic range.

So far the only headphone amp that behaved well for me is headroom's total airhead.  If I want something better than what I have now I would probably go with either their total bithead or the fiio e7.

Well, it's the μDAC2 that he's bashing! I was defending the μDAC1.

Re: the channel balance issue, I have to admit I never considered it that big a deal, for the same reason you mention. Admittedly, like the guy points out, it may vary between individual units, but on mine it's on too low volume levels to matter.

Of the other stuff, the clipping seems to be an μDAC2-only issue - certainly not there in my μDAC1 unit, anyhow; and the frequency 'colouring' is a nuForce thing, surely. Compare with their Icons, too! I never said the μDAC was neutral: I said it was "clean". And it synergises well with my Grados and Senns, in particular, so I'm satisfied. One thing I'm not doing after reading the above analysis, though, is replacing my μDAC with an μDAC2, should it fail. I wonder if you can still get v.1.

[DavidW]

Yeah I wouldn't be pissed off if I had purchased the udac1 instead.

Well here is a goofy pic, I would post this on the pics thread but all they seem to care about are naked women these days!   Anyway ya headphone nerds will appreciate this:



How goofy!  What are those anyway?  They look like kind of like the akg k1000 but not.  Electrostatics I guess... only one of those not butt ugly is probably the Sennheiser Orpheus.