Headphones

Started by Bonehelm, June 10, 2007, 02:50:21 PM

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Mirror Image

Quote from: Gordo on July 11, 2014, 03:05:17 PM
I needed to buy a hard shell for my MacBook, but I finally acquired these Sennheiser Momentum headphones (ivory color):



Especially made for iPod, iPhone and iPad, the soundstage of my iPod improves dramatically with them.

The frequency response doesn't look too good on these (16 - 22,000 Hz). They do, however, have a good sound pressure level (110 dB). One thing I wouldn't like about these is the fact they're closed headphones and I prefer a more natural soundstage (i. e. open or semi-open).

Wakefield

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2014, 06:00:27 PM
The frequency response doesn't look too good on these (16 - 22,000 Hz). They do, however, have a good sound pressure level (110 dB). One thing I wouldn't like about these is the fact they're closed headphones and I prefer a more natural soundstage (i. e. open or semi-open).

Interesting... I bought these headphones exclusively to use them with my iPod and iPad (at home I use a pair of Sennheiser HD650 and sometimes an old AKG K 240 semi-open). This was an impulsive purchase after 30 min. of hearing, but after several hours this afternoon, I would say it was an excellent impulse. They really do a nice work with iPod, by far the best sound quality I have gotten from this device.

I usually also prefer open or semi-open headphones, but here (iPod and iPad), I think closed headphones are probably a better choice considering  the noisy ambiances where I will use them.

Additionally, they are really comfortable and have a great look.   
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Mirror Image

Quote from: Gordo on July 11, 2014, 08:05:35 PM
Interesting... I bought these headphones exclusively to use them with my iPod and iPad (at home I use a pair of Sennheiser HD650 and sometimes an old AKG K 240 semi-open). This was an impulsive purchase after 30 min. of hearing, but after several hours this afternoon, I would say it was an excellent impulse. They really do a nice work with iPod, by far the best sound quality I have gotten from this device.

I usually also prefer open or semi-open headphones, but here (iPod and iPad), I think closed headphones are probably a better choice considering  the noisy ambiances where I will use them.

Additionally, they are really comfortable and have a great look.   

Ah, I see. Personally, I never listen to music in a noisy place. Most of listening is done either on one of my iPods (w/ a headphone amp) or through my stereo.

Wakefield

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2014, 08:08:42 PM
Ah, I see. Personally, I never listen to music in a noisy place. Most of listening is done either on one of my iPods (w/ a headphone amp) or through my stereo.

As my apartment is completely silent, perhaps I gave a wrong idea, when I used the word "noisy". To me a quiet park and my own office are noisy places, but people wouldn't usually consider them noisy in absolute terms. People walking and chatting (or simply breathing  :D) do a lot of annoying noises.
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Mirror Image

Quote from: Gordo on July 11, 2014, 08:24:53 PM
As my apartment is completely silent, perhaps I gave a wrong idea, when I used the word "noisy". To me a quiet park and my own office are noisy places, but people wouldn't usually consider them noisy in absolute terms. People walking and chatting (or simply breathing  :D) do a lot of annoying noises.

Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification. :) How do you listen to music in your apartment?

Wakefield

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2014, 08:27:17 PM
Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification. :) How do you listen to music in your apartment?

Generally, through my main system, without headphones because, fortunately, my apt has very good insulation and the neighbors don't listen to anything. Sometimes, I also use the iMac which has a very good sound card and a lot of material on my iTunes library. The second way has increased a bit the last months because there is a good amount of sites offering lossless archives and digital booklet.  :)
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Mirror Image

Quote from: Gordo on July 11, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Generally, through my main system, without headphones because, fortunately, my apt has very good insulation and the neighbors don't listen to anything. Sometimes, I also use the iMac which has a very good sound card and a lot of material on my iTunes library. The second way has increased a bit the last months because there is a good amount of sites offering lossless archives and digital booklet.  :)

Very nice indeed. My dad recently bought him an iMac and absolutely loves it.

Rinaldo

Quote from: Gordo on July 11, 2014, 03:05:17 PM




Oh, I've got my eyes ears set on these. A friend bought them so I had the chance to try them a few times and it was instant love. Best sound / comfort I've yet experienced in the portable department.

I'm a Beyerdynamic guy - perfectly content with my DT 990s at home - but I'm getting these for my mp3 player when I'll have the money to spare.

71 dB

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2014, 06:00:27 PM
The frequency response doesn't look too good on these (16 - 22,000 Hz).
Why? The range of human hearing is about 20 - 20,000 Hz. The frequency response of these cans is actually extremely flat between 20 - 2,000 Hz. Above 2000 Hz it's the same stuff you get from most good cans (some diffuse field compensation included). These cans are definitely not bass-shy. The shape of the frequency response probably makes 1,500-2,000 Hz area stand out.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2014, 06:00:27 PMThey do, however, have a good sound pressure level (110 dB). One thing I wouldn't like about these is the fact they're closed headphones and I prefer a more natural soundstage (i. e. open or semi-open).
Sound pressure levels can't be compared just like that. 110 dB with what power and at frequency? In this case it's 1 kHz/1 Vrms. At 1 kHz the measured impedance is about 22 Ω and the phase of it is very close to 0 degrees (almost pure resistance). So, at 1 kHz and 1 Vrms we have (1 Vrms)2/22 Ω = 45 mW power. With 1 Wm of power at 1 KHz we have 110 dB + 10*log10(1 mW/45 mW) dB = 110 dB - 17 dB = 93 dB.

So SPL is 110 dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms) or 93 dB (1 kHz/1 mW)

Portable players are often listened to more or less noisy environment and therefor closed headphones have an advantage to compensate the disadvantage of often compromised soundstage.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

EigenUser

Quote from: 71 dB on July 12, 2014, 03:22:56 AM
Why? The range of human hearing is about 20 - 20,000 Hz. The frequency response of these cans is actually extremely flat between 20 - 2,000 Hz. Above 2000 Hz it's the same stuff you get from most good cans (some diffuse field compensation included). These cans are definitely not bass-shy. The shape of the frequency response probably makes 1,500-2,000 Hz area stand out.
Sound pressure levels can't be compared just like that. 110 dB with what power and at frequency? In this case it's 1 kHz/1 Vrms. At 1 kHz the measured impedance is about 22 Ω and the phase of it is very close to 0 degrees (almost pure resistance). So, at 1 kHz and 1 Vrms we have (1 Vrms)2/22 Ω = 45 mW power. With 1 Wm of power at 1 KHz we have 110 dB + 10*log10(1 mW/45 mW) dB = 110 dB - 17 dB = 93 dB.

So SPL is 110 dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms) or 93 dB (1 kHz/1 mW)

Portable players are often listened to more or less noisy environment and therefor closed headphones have an advantage to compensate the disadvantage of often compromised soundstage.

Geez, why must you make me feel like I have to refer to Bode plots and transfer functions just to enjoy some Bartok? ::) :laugh:
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

DavidW

71 dB raises a good point, some headphone companies (I think just the German ones) use dB/V which is quite a bit different from dB/mW.  That is how people pick up akg headphones, plug them into their phone and can't get reasonable volume.  They misread the sensitivity.

According to sound and vision though the sensitivity in dB/mW comes to 100 dB, which is good enough for portable use.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-sennheiser-momentum-over-ear-headphones-0

That should come as no surprise, the Momentums were designed for use with mobile devices.

71 dB

Quote from: DavidW on July 12, 2014, 06:02:52 AMAccording to sound and vision though the sensitivity in dB/mW comes to 100 dB, which is good enough for portable use.http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-sennheiser-momentum-over-ear-headphones-0

The article isn't very clear about that. "Average sensitivity from 300 Hz to 6 kHz, calculated for 18 ohms rated impedance is 100.7 dB"

Above about 2 kHz the sensitivity drops so that at 6 kHz the sound pressure level is about ~15 dB lower than at 1 kHz. This makes the average sensitivity from 300 Hz to 6 kHz significantly lower than at 1 kHz. So, I suppose it's 100.7 dB / 1 Vrms on average from 300 Hz to 6 kHz what they mean. 100 dB / 1 mW is too high for this product at any frequency imo.

22 Ω versus 18 Ω means less than 1 dB difference on "calculated" levels.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on July 12, 2014, 03:42:45 AM
Geez, why must you make me feel like I have to refer to Bode plots and transfer functions just to enjoy some Bartok? ::) :laugh:

You have inadvertently put your finger on the essence of Darmstadt: listening is neither necessary nor sufficient.

Karl Henning

A friend of mine (no, but really) is looking for good-but-not-terribly-expensive open headphones.  Any recs?

TIA
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

DavidW

I received my q701 headphones today.  They sound AWESOME!!!  I listened to Nielsen's Clarinet Concerto and then some rock.  There is tremendous sound stage.  It sounds slightly bright of neutral.  Sounds more natural than the dt880s.  Will continue later-- have to hit chamber, organ, piano, and vocal to get a good complete sense of these headphones.  They are also very comfortable.

Rinaldo

Quote from: karlhenning on July 14, 2014, 11:44:42 AM
A friend of mine (no, but really) is looking for good-but-not-terribly-expensive open headphones.  Any recs?

TIA

If 100 $ still falls into the not-terribly-expensive category, I'd wager Grado SR-80e might be the best bang for your friends' buck. They're not very pretty and some people find them uncomfortable after prolonged sessions but otherwise than that, it's entry audiophile level for non-audiophile money.

(there's also a cheaper-yet-still-competent 60e variant which can be had for 20 $ less)

DavidW

Quote from: Rinaldo on July 14, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
If 100 $ still falls into the not-terribly-expensive category, I'd wager Grado SR-80e might be the best bang for your friends' buck. They're not very pretty and some people find them uncomfortable after prolonged sessions but otherwise than that, it's entry audiophile level for non-audiophile money.

(there's also a cheaper-yet-still-competent 60e variant which can be had for 20 $ less)

+1  The 80s are best bang for the buck.  They do have elevated bass and treble, makes them sound fun but tiring.  But the midrange does sound tonally correct and detailed.  Poor build quality though.  Still nothing sub $100 and open currently competes with it.  Also I don't like the 60s, I think the 80s are much more articulate and have better bass reproduction as well.

Open air headphones are an audiophile thing, so you don't find too many at cheap prices.  I will also put out the Sennheiser px100-ii for your consideration.  They are ultra portables meant to be worn on the go, they are open air, and have the same sound signature as their higher end cans, but not as detailed.

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: DavidW on July 14, 2014, 12:31:37 PM
I received my q701 headphones today.  They sound AWESOME!!!  I listened to Nielsen's Clarinet Concerto and then some rock.  There is tremendous sound stage.  It sounds slightly bright of neutral.  Sounds more natural than the dt880s.  Will continue later-- have to hit chamber, organ, piano, and vocal to get a good complete sense of these headphones.  They are also very comfortable.

I know what my next headphones will be. :) But I don't know, I might go with some higher end Sennheisers, but I look forward to the rest of your report, Dave.

DavidW

On the q701:

So I've listened to orchestral from each era, chamber, piano, harpsichord, organ, choral, rock, pop, metal, prog... these headphones sound great.  These are the first akg headphones I've heard that actually sound right.  I haven't spent enough time to compare them to other headphones, or describe their sound signature.  But they make it to my short list.