The Art of Rafael Kubelik

[Iago]

I always have loved the Kubelik/Boston Symphony/Ma Vlast.
True its not as idiomatically authentic as his versions with the Czech Philharmonic. But his BSO recording was made prior to the poison of Leinsdorf and Ozawa. And the BSO plays so magnificently that words fail me. I was not pleased with the recording itself (engineering) when I played it on my old cd player. And thought that the deficiencies lay in the recording itself. But when I played that recording on my new machine, subtleties of phrasing, inner voices of the score, biplay between instruments, extraordinary solos from the first desk players in the BSO, and of course Kubeliks dedication to the music, all became clear to me.
No orchestra I've heard, plays that music as well as the BSO on that recording. And I've heard Kubelik give a performance of that music in Boston, and with the Cleveland Orchestra in Cleveland. The Czech performance (although emotion filled) can't hold a candle to the BSO recording for excellence in orchestral execution. Listen to it on a top-of-the-line cd player, and I have every confidence that if you are fair minded, you will agree.

[Daverz]

There is a lot of Kubelik available in Japan.

[Hector]

I have one half of a Brahms cycle he did around that time with the VPO for Decca but find it overly thick and unconvincing.

His Decca VPO recordings are not up to much. The Brahms cycle had Walter, Klemperer and Kempe to contend with, for starters, in the sixties. His Ma Vlast is poorly recorded by Decca standards at this time.

I prefer the Schumann he recorded for DG and the yet-to-be-surpassed set of the Dvorak tone poems.

He did a 'World Tour' of orchestras when he recorded his Beethoven cycle which, as I recall, received mixed reviews at the time.

[Daverz]

Oh, forgot this one

[PerfectWagnerite]

Oh, forgot this one

Oh no, the biggest bomb in recorded history. Nothing wrong with the performance but the opera is terrible.

[knight66]

Yes, this is not a grateful to the ear or swift moving piece. I am afraid I gave it a couple of hearings from the library, years ago, and decided it was not for me.

Something of an endurance test.

Mike

[karlhenning]

Maybe we should have stress-tested Harry with Palestrina before sending him in to Boris?  Make the latter seem a cakewalk.

[Que]

His Bruckner - 3rd (I can't make up my mind whether I prefer studio one on Sony or live one on Bells of St.Florian, both top of the line), 8th and 9th on Orfeo (8th is early 60s mono but that 9th is one of the most incredibly recorded live performance ever, kudos to Bavarian Radio technicians).

And million times mentioned live Das Lied with Baker and Kmentt.

Anyone heard his Concertgebouw Mahler 5 on Tahra?

Yes, have it. And listened to it this evening to refresh my memory - listened to it only one time since I bought it a few months ago. My first impression was confirmed: I don't think this is the definitive Mahler 5th recording as Tony Duggan feels it is.

Compare this other comment by Robert E. Benson on ClassicalCDreview:
"Rafael Kubelik's Symphony No. 5, from a concert June 21, 1951, is of lesser interest.  That day the Concertgebouw was not at its best.  There are a number of horn mishaps, particularly exposed in the finale, that one doesn't expect from the famed Dutch orchestra which at the time was a world-class ensemble under Eduard van Beinum's stewardship. The sound is well-balanced mono, excellent for its vintage. The disk is issued "with kind permission of Mrs. Kubelik, the orchestra and NCRV" - probably most Concertgebouw collectors will wish to own it as well as admirers of Kubelik.  The Czech conductor's DG complete set of Mahler symphonies with the Bavarian Radio Orchestra is no longer available - although a live performance of Symphony No. 5 with that orchestra dating from l981 is available on AUDITE 95465."

I'm not that negative at all, I like Kubelik natural(istic), straight and unfussy approach. There are several "magical moments".But it's sometimes uneven in execution - and tension slips. And yes, there are also some mishaps in the orchestra. Kubelik doesn't bring this home in one piece, so to speak.
Also, I read about rather good sound. It is actually not that fine. I don't mind hiss and there are some sizzles that continue for a while, but more important is that the orchestra sounds very dim at times, with sound suddenly "opening up" again and sounding fine, only to return dim after a while. So, sound is uneven too.
That all being said, like it enough to try Kubelik's other live recording on Audite.

Just to give you my frame of reference: I also know & have the Haitink/Concertgebouw and the Walter/NYPO.



Q

[Drasko]

Yes, have it. And listened to it this evening to refresh my memory - listened to it only one time since I bought it a few months ago. My first impression was confirmed: I don't think this is the definitive Mahler 5th recording as Tony Duggan feels it is.

Thanks! I think I'll pass, just got Shipway's 5th and that should do for some time.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Thanks! I think I'll pass, just got Shipway's 5th and that should do for some time.

Did you get the Membran issue sacd hybrid.  To tell you the truth there's not a great deal of difference between this and the older RPO issue.

A broad interpretation, in superb sound.  One of the loveliest 'expanded' adagiettos ever committed.  Evermore a little gem of a Mahler 5.

No caveats with this performance or recording....surefire winner.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Boy, even amongst some of Duggan's weird Mahler recommendations those for the 5th have to be the oddest: two historical recordings to start the list and then such non-mainstream recommendations such as Shipway, Gatti, Schwarz, Rattle, and Zander (of all people). Where is Karajan, possibly the most intense Mahler 5th featuring the monstrous basses and horns of the BPO. Those whipping horns in the Scherzo have to be heard to be believed. Can't believe Karajan didn't get on the list and Zander did.

[AnthonyAthletic]

The Rudolf Schwarz IMO deserves its place on the list, but come on, putting Rattle, Gatti, Zander in there at the expense of Karajan is high treason.  From the looks of it any recording with an adagietto over 10 minutes gets the heave ho from TD    How can anyone say that the sound, balance, performance and intensity of Karajan is one step down from the likes of such an inferior performance from Zander?

Who'd be a critic 

[PerfectWagnerite]

The Rudolf Schwarz IMO deserves its place on the list, but come on, putting Rattle, Gatti, Zander in there at the expense of Karajan is high treason.  From the looks of it any recording with an adagietto over 10 minutes gets the heave ho from TD    How can anyone say that the sound, balance, performance and intensity of Karajan is one step down from the likes of such an inferior performance from Zander?

Who'd be a critic 

Maybe Duggan hasn't heard the HVK M5 (unlikely) or maybe he has an axe to grind with him. Anyone who HAS heard that recording cann't but agree that it is a recording of immense power and little rhetoric. I am in general not a big HVK fan but in his Mahler recordings (the 5th, the 2 Ninths, and Ruckert Lieder and Kindertodenlieder) he is masterful, almost like he is born to conduct the music.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Throw in his immense 6th too, they are all wonderful representations and essential to anyones collection.

I must say I have always preferred the studio BPO 9th over the live 9th the following year, both top notch but the studio always grabbed me more, being IMO more indulgent & palatable although no where near as intense as the finale to the live recording.

[sidoze]

You two might want to track down HVK's Salzburg 9th, apparently available for download from the Yahoo operashare group now. Word has it that it sweeps all before it

[AnthonyAthletic]

You two might want to track down HVK's Salzburg 9th, apparently available for download from the Yahoo operashare group now. Word has it that it sweeps all before it

Where's the link Tony 

You know I'm a luddite, who likes the one or dozen great freebies

[Drasko]

Did you get the Membran issue sacd hybrid.  To tell you the truth there's not a great deal of difference between this and the older RPO issue.

Yes Membran, tons of those Membran SACDs just hit local stores here and that was the only one ringing any bells. Is anything else from those RPO series interesting, there was Shipway's Shostakovich 10?

Maybe Duggan hasn't heard the HVK M5 (unlikely) or maybe he has an axe to grind with him

Word Karajan just doesn't exist in Duggan's vocabulary.

[AnthonyAthletic]

The Gorecki 3rd 'don't knock it' I like it    Is very well recorded and performed, sound exemplarary.

I don't know if Vernon Handley's RPO Planets is issued on Membran, that too is a really sonic spectacular

[sidoze]

Where's the link Tony 

I'll try to get it. I'm not a member of operashare. It's for recording fanatics -- the number they put up each month is overwhelming.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Yes Membran, tons of those Membran SACDs just hit local stores here and that was the only one ringing any bells. Is anything else from those RPO series interesting, there was Shipway's Shostakovich 10?

Word Karajan just doesn't exist in Duggan's vocabulary.

Duggan also never saw a Mahler recording with a British conductor that he didn't drool over.